Reverse Grip - Pro's and Con's

[Bluesky]

Here is a repost of my utube comments on the Jar Kai video to respond and stimulate detailed discussion about the Reverse Grip:

Medieval longsword was often used reverse or forward with the same guards. It was only when blades shrunk and became closer to a foil that reverse grip was abandoned. Holding the reverse grip like a pike oftened pressed through defenses into a stright or ox thrust. Many Chinese arts involve the reverse grip with trapping and zapping and binding.

To develop your Reverse grip using a staff is very effective.

As for your reverse grip it takes mastery of a number of elements. Reverse grip will retreat when forward grip advances and advances when forward grip retreats. As a momentum weapon it is difficult to train without protective equipment.

The reverse grip is an interesting strategy with its many possibilities. I understand its not everyones cup of tea but I think it has its strong points. Its advantage/disadvantage balance makes it extremely dynamic and fluid. All eight lines of attack can be cut with two-handed reverse grip faster then the forward; though it does sacrifice reach the same could be said for a hook/uppercut. Boxing has a limited number of strikes and motions and yet is highly effective and efficeint - Just like reverse grip.

I think the ability to be flexible between both forward and reverse creates many more dynamic possibilities, draging out a duel is never advisable and if you can ask questions they are unfamilar with then you can overcome. Even experienced swordsmen have been known to be defeated by the unusual or the inexperienced.

As my master always taught - block to your natural side or redirect blind to natural. Your partner VorNach seems quite masterful in his high guard stance. If you are caught in a confined space occuppying the centre is critical. A left angle step backwards into a plow or ox guard should be used. If you lose an opponents blade with one guard you catch it in the other. Any attack can be parried and countered moving to VorNach left or binding into a trap and zap!

Reverse cutting with two-hands is as powerful as a staff in one direction and fluid and fast onehanded in the other. It has many resources and strageies for gaining and taking the intiative. In your demonstration your opponent was two close for a tail guard. An experienced reverse grip weilder would hold it either in a plow or ox or crown/roof guards. Your partner had your blindside and reach, both deadly advantages in time. To gain initiative or take initiative is essential in all forms.

If you can block one-handed you can block with a reverse grip. Reverse grip can be used two-handed as well as one-handed and can deflect and counter with speed and flexibility. If you have distance you can hypermodern your sword into an extremely cocked ready position and can even spin and turn your back. It is only a disadvantage if you can take advantage of the weakness. Reverse cutting with a lightsabre is particularly deadly in how it can reverse directions back along its line.

When you struck at your partner with reverse grip it struck his hand because his natural german longsword guard (Ox) did not deal with the reverse grips abililty to change in flight. For many years I have held my foil low and my partners have attacked. I have parried and followed up with a basic thrust and caught most of them unawares. Reverse Grip is a counterpuncher that can cut multiple times quickly; at the right time switching from forward to reverse is devastating.

As a momentum weapon it can wrong time itself if you are inexperienced and it can be difficult at first.

Holding the blade in forward grip, place a matress against a wall and strike all eight lines of attack one-handed and two-handed/cuts and strikes. Then repeat this process with reverse grip. The reverse grip is brutally fast two-handed and one-handed. To say reverse grip is inferior to forward grip is to say forward grip is superior to staff. "Hold the blade forward as you test and measure your opponents grasp of distance, time and the centre. Reverse the blade for the killing attack." - Master Lu

Reverse blade is deeply missunderstood because it is not perfected. Just as releasing the two-handed grip to slash or thrust at the right time is devastating; reverse grip is equally devastating momentum weapon like double-bladed lightsabres. Reverse grip can be held in the same position with two hands as the forward grip in a western style german longsword style. Reverse grip is the fastest cutting grip for all lines of attack.

Thankyou for your excellent video's - What are your thoughts and reverse grip theories?

Kind Regards
Bluesky

[Master VorNach]

Medieval longsword was often used reverse or forward with the same guards. It was only when blades shrunk and became closer to a foil that reverse grip was abandoned. Holding the reverse grip like a pike oftened pressed through defenses into a stright or ox thrust.

Which sources are you referring to?

[Bluesky]

Reverse grip is a very important tool; especially for form 5 as I understand it. Your practice will make all the difference. I suggested that the Matress test be used to practice and perfect your cutting with one hand, two-hand and mixture. This will quickly show an almost tidal rythem. Power towards the left and speed towards the right (Assuming right hand lead hand) Cutting flows and snakes and can adjust in flight into fractions of lines of attack.

Speed without purpose squanders any cutting advantage of the reverse grip/ one cut must lead to another. Every cut must have a purpose; even the simple task of striking the blade; a "Stahltest" (Ger. Steel test) reveals much about them. Are they like a rabbit running back at the smallest threat? Are they like a bull seeking to too flank quickly or run you over? Are they like a wolf circling just out of reach of the fires light?

Good basic drills:

(Practice each drill in Medieval guard positions: Ox, Fool, Tail, Plow, Crown, High)

Ascending/Descending both sides and with both orders of execution. (Follow the same line up and down)
Ascending/horizontal - Descending/horizontal
Horizontal/Descending - Horizontal/Ascending

Include Raking the blade back along its line without rotation (Effective especially with a lightsaber)
Include steping to all eight directions (Towards and Away)
Include striking a yeilding surface. (Matress)
Include a third cut to a unique, critical, creative target of opportunity.

Avoid wild swings; avoid binding and clashing (Remember no protection from them sliding down or up and cutting your hands off)
avoid advancing or retreating, forwards or backwards - use angle stepping; and avoid spinning as much as possible.

Trust guards; trust taking and gaining of the initiative above all else and finally enjoy many styles.

Kind Regards
Bluesky
(I hope this was informative)

[Bluesky]

Hello from Australia; love your work and enjoyment of the sword that comes out in all your videos.

A good place to start for sources if you are totally unfamiliar; which I am sure you are familiar I was thinking of others reading this.

http://www.thearma.org/essays/StancesIntro.htm
http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_arms_gls.php

"Fiore Dei Liberi's name for his craft of the long-sword, symbolized by four virtues or .... the sword horizontally in a high middle position with the left hand in a reverse grip. ....."
Not taking this quote out of context, (all my old photocopies need to be unearthed!) reverse grip is just as common in western as it is in eastern; it is unfortunate that much has to be relearnt and reconstructed from drawings and old manuals.

Out of J.Meyer:

Uebergreiffen.

Uebergreiffen ist also / Hauw von deiner Rechten zu seiner Obern Lincken Blöß / im Hauw aber greiff mit den Fingern uber das kreuz oder Schilt herauß / jedoch so behalt den Daumen an dem Hefft / unod? mit der Lincken Handt erheb den Knopff / und schlag in mit hangeter Klingen uber oder hinder seiner versatzung auff den Kopff.

Uebergreifen (=grapping over)

This is a cut from your right at his left high opening, while you cut grapp with your fingers over the cross guard, but let your thumb at the grip of your sword and lift with your left hand the pommel and hit him with hanging blade over or behind his dislacement at his head.

J.Meyer used this technique for a powerfull thrust.

As Hans Heim and Michael Huber indicated, reverse grip techniques are sometimes found in European swordsmanship. They also are found in at least some schools of Japanese swordsmanship (katana and wakizashi).

Talhoffer's 1467 fechtbuch illustrates quite a number of reverse grip techniques, in the sense that the point is turned away from the enemy and the pommel presented towards them. It's *not* the cliched "reverse arms to stab the bad guy behind you" move, in that one hand generally grips the handle while the other holds the blade, or both hands grip the blade, rather than both hands gripping the handle. Because this shortens the measure, it is most often seen in binding, winding and other ringen am schwerdt ("wrestling at the sword") techniques against an enemy in front of you. Sometimes the pommel or quillon is used as an attacking weapon, as in the mordeschlag or "death blow."

Finally: "The "Gladiatoria" is a rare manuscript from the mid-1400's.  It is one of the more obscure Fechtbucher and one which has not been examined at length before by pracitioners." - http://www.thehaca.com/Manuals/Gladiatoria/Gladiatoria.htm

These are just some quick reverse grip references I found with GOOGLE! The western swordsmen were just as experienced and flexible as the eastern its just that eastern movies seem to give it more of a look over. At the right time in the roof guard switch to reverse you might surprise them!

I learnt the hard way the efectiveness of half-swording; reverse grip and other tech of the medieval longsword against old-timers who used every dirty trick to thrash me up and down day after day. They used the blade every way possible. (Even grabing my sword!)

The jump from reverse grip Techniques into a Style is a different story; I see it as a strong complimentary/advanced style; at the right time it is deadly like all styles. Cunning often overcomes deficiencies; even a daggar is deadly if you get my point.

Many people when they think of reverse grip they think of this;

"Cut the  Hand

In this scenario you have the reverse grip and play long range as the opponent takes the reverse grip and tries to close in with the high stab. The reverse grip will force him to close, because he will be unable to match your superior range using the forward grip. You try to stay at long range, and look to evade and slash or hack the opponent's hand as he attacks. Against the downwards stab you slash across the hand with a backhand motion.  Imagine the defender striking, and possibly cutting off, the attackers pinkie."

Range is not the issue it seems to be here; a hook does not have the reach of a jab; should it be dismissed because you can slip it?
Reverse grips range is not that much less that you would say it is defeated?
Many tall Jedi have a range advantage; does that mean they can defeat shorter opponents?

Reverse grip has a clearly defined boundary; its momentum is both its strength and weakness. Every attack has its guard; that is the nature of things.
Reverse grip will continue to develop and I hope that it will grow here as well.

Some have brought up the "Ice Pick Block"

Practice starting in Plow with two-hands and every time you roll across and execute the block lunge at an angle away and counter. Let your angles baffle range. Some will argue that Form 3 is weak because it waits and defends; I would say counter attackers are extremely dangerous even if they are patient for a mistake from their opponant.

Thankyou for your interest - I hope this adds to the overall discussions so that reverse grip is not 'defeated!'
Once again thankyou for your wonderful and informative videos.

Kind Regards
Bluesky

[eerockk]

Reverse grip is badass to watch. I love reverse grip, but it has a weakness that makes it near-useless in protected (armored) combat against someone who is proficient with Shii-Cho basics: Sun Djem - the hand/weapon/wrist chop. You swing your own hand/wrist/hilt through your opponent's blade for him or her all because he or she knew that your reverse-gripped swing was being led by your wrist, and the fight's over before you get a swing off. It's the Achilles heel of the form. For choreography, for sure go for it! It's awesome to watch it work when real fighting's dynamics aren't involved. I'm not against it at all; I'm sure a highly skilled and practiced duelist could sneak a reverse grip in a real combat situation occasionally and really take their opponent by surprise. Remember, I said it was near-useless.

I am not a master with TPLA, but an online student of theirs. Just yesterday, I visited them in Ann Arbor MI, and they showed me for the first time just how real the armored combat was (hockey gear, etc., and fencing mask). I didn't have enough time to think using a two handed forward grip! Reverse grip would be out of the question for yesterday's application. I had my saber in forward guard and was only able to stop an attack in time once or twice. I'd say all Master Nonymous used on me was Shii-Cho and a little Makashi, and his years of martial arts training and skill. I'm a strong 35 year old untrained enthusiast, and there was nothing I could do to counter nor break his defense - it was awesome! Accordingly, I'm sure Nonymous's skill would allow him to prove everything you said above true if he were to fight me using it.   However, to fight an opponent who's equal or greater than you using a reverse grip as your main hold would just be unwise, I think. I wouldn't have chimed in if I hadn't seen this for myself.  

[Bluesky]

Hi from Australia, just caught your reply; all good points. I have no doubt what so ever of the skill or strength of the forward grip and congrats for becoming a student. You are in capable hands to be sure.

Armour is good for practice but is an artificial environment. Only rely upon it for safty, not anything else is what my tip would be mate. If armour was a factor why not half-sword?

Remember this for me is about its validity and any technique forward has its sister technique in RG. Near-useless I don't think so

What if my horizontal cut changes suddenly into a ascending cut? RG loves fakes allot.

The hand/weapon/wrist chop - what would I do?

1/ If it is what I am thinking perhaps I would retreat having seen little hand flicks and attacks before. (There quite good against all styles)
2/ Try changing guards quickly with footwork, it will help you catch them; if you miss them with one line the circle parry will pick them up in another.
3/ A simple defense but effective is The Plow Strikes the Stone. Easy to learn and teaches your sparing partner wariness. Standing in the Plow with reverse grip there is nothing in your profile that looks different from forward. As they cut upwards/horizontal/descending at your hands/hilt/weapon. Step back and roll the tip around and up at their hand/weapon/ even if nothing happens if they rush into that buzzsaw then.... Because you have stepped to an angle and finished in the roof guard (Your second hand rejoining the lead) You have a great deal of options - The best at this point after they have decided hand attacks win all is to move again because if at first they don't succeed they might try try again. When someone loves a move they will often repeat it; teachers will also repeat things so that you learn to pick up patterns. Also teachers are drained by what they do and so will often have a 'teachers stance' - This is closer and taller then they would like you to be; this also gives them mobility advantages. If they are getting around you to easy; bring your stance closer and see if that helps.

Watch for repeatitions as much as you can. Moving and watching; that is in my opinion excellent for beginners.

Also when you are starting out don't try to move perfectly to form, just move and trust your instincts; you have excellent teachers there so if they do something that works; stop and repeat their move 4 tiimes quickly and then go on. don't try to think about just monkey see monkey do. In WW2 (I love stories by the way! ) they found that some pilots under extreme conditions saved themselves creatively and the shrink studying them devised a creativity test. Give someone a brick and ask them to come up with uses for the brick in twoo minutes. Some are more creative then others but everyone can boast their ceativity.

Do something silly out of normal and your creativity can increase up to 15% Butter bread by buttering the plate and then plonk the bread on it and rub it on. Do something; out of normal reality; doddle, perform repeative tasks like having a bath. Put the tip of your lightsaber on the ground and run at them with the foot attack! Creativiity sees what your logic/left brain cannot. A fun way to develop your right brain (This is great for kids) is drill with an pirate eyepatch over your right eye! (The brain is crosswired)

Anyway I hope this helps Eerockk and I can tell from the videos your in good hands so happy sabering!!!

PS - As for your disllike of RG, that's ok, thanks for giving it some thought.

Kind Regards
Bluesky

[Darth Nonymous]

Armour is good for practice but is an artificial environment. Only rely upon it for safty, not anything else is what my tip would be mate. If armour was a factor why not half-sword?

Other than relying on armor for safety, I cannot disagree more. Armor actually makes it possible to do real technique at full speed making it more realistic. without it, you would need to seriously hurt your training partner. Unless you mean that sparing is an artificial environment, but that should go without saying.

Real people wore armor in fighting. Armor is one of the defining thing about Star Wars.  It does not make you lazy in your parries or make you more susceptible to being hit. Nor does not wearing armor make you a better swordsman because you don't want to get hit.

His point was that with armor you can go full speed and that changed the way he viewed how fast a technique had to be. One should probably learn their scales and chords before attempting Free Jazz.

And we can't half sword lightsabers. 

Also, you are the only one taking an all or nothing attitude with the rev grip. I obviously do not have anything against it, yet, my arguments come back like I think it is all together useless.

Let me be clear:

I agree that the rev grip has uses. I agree that anything can be made to work. I agree that novel approaches often work where standard ones do not.

 I disagree that rev grip is faster than standrad grip in any manner of cutting with a sword or sword like object. I disagree that it is under rated. I disagree that it is anything more than a novel tactic to be used sparingly.

Basic physics is against this manner of grip to be used as a primary. Therefore it is a very low percentage tactic having a narrow field of application. Just as an uppercut.

[eerockk]

Hi Bluesky,

You do make some good arguments for reverse grip as a means of enhancing a forward grip routine, and accordingly, you have succeeded in making me think about it again! I come from a musical/educational background, and in my experience, I've seen people accomplish the seemingly impossible with hours of practice and dedication. With the right dedication and determination, and with taking into account the automatic weakness of reverse grip and compensating for them, well, one can learn anything - again, I've seen it happen in music! You've succeeded in making me think about the merits of reverse grip again, (though even I can seemingly defend against RG attacks considerably more easily than forward gripped attacks), and I respect anyone that gets me to think about anything again that I've put in my mind's back burner. Cheers!

Enter the armor though... For half-swording, Nonymous is right; you can't grab your own blade using a lightsaber, at least to keep things authentic to the weapon. When I suited up in the gear and Nonymous and I sparred, the first thing I noticed is that I could swing my saber as hard and as fast as I wanted to - hard enough to cause injury! He was swinging likewise. I've never been in a combat situation that felt so real and intense in all my life. Without the gear on, it would have been a real fight and we would have been playing for keeps (I would have had a concussion after the first two goes - no word of a lie ). In a situation where gear is required to prevent injury, reverse grip puts you at odds with any hope at winning the fight, barring a lucky strike from a brave soul who would wield it! What I am apt to do though, is to challenge Nonymous again while using the reverse grip and have him remain using a forward grip. There's no better a teacher than experience, and to that end, I'm curious to see what happens. I couldn't get near him before using a forward grip, so I would like to experience the extra handicap a reverse grip would give to me. My only hope (no longer after he reads this) is to go at him with a style so friggin unorthodox that he can't read what I'm about to do like he could when I adopted a forward grip. (As soon as he realized that I was trying to fake him out, he launched an offensive throwing me into confusion, so he even has ways of compensating for his opponents' trickery; I hope you understand that you've just inspired me to undertake an uphill battle here). I know my gear will make any strikes I take painless, and therefore, I would only have experience to gain.

Hey man, sword fighting is a living art. The next steps to advance the reverse grip style are to try to overcome extra time it takes to swing a blade, and learn to cover the open areas it leaves open by default. Most forward wielders don't have to adapt very much to someone using a reverse grip with current practices, but could reverse grip compensate somehow for this? It would be unorthodox, but unorthodox methods can work too sometimes. Personally, I have my work cut out with forward grip material and reverse grip would seem to be far too advanced a form for someone of my current ability to take seriously. When I gain proficiency with combat, I would definitely consider incorporating a few reverse slashes in my repertoire - 100% promised there mate. For now, RG is just going to end the fight for me quickly if I use it, and I'm hearing seasoned and trained individuals stating the same thing goes for them too. I suggest incorporating everything you've mentioned into occasionally using them in a forward handed routine - switch it up to use RG only when your FW puts you in a position to do so. I do like reverse grip as I mentioned before, and it would be nice to see it used effectively and proficiently during a quick grip reversal in a spar.

Seriously though, try armored combat! You won't go back, or if you do, you'll see that it's way more intense than unarmored combat, and the lack of fear of getting injured makes for a much faster-paced battle, and when injury is removed from the mental game, the mind is free to concentrate on the battle alone. It's the closest thing I've ever had to being in a Star Trek Holodeck in terms of realism. I used a set of hockey shoulder pads, elbow pads, street hockey gloves, and a fencing mask. That was enough to make the attacks of Master Nonymous not hurt - most struck before I knew they were coming! I wasn't defeated in combat, I was shown how much potential I have and how far I still have yet to go, and that wouldn't have happened without that gear on. When someone takes something I've loved for over 30 years and shows me that there are still miles of proverbial roads to travel, well that's a good feeling! Wearing protective equipment for combat breathes new life in to this art man, and it's a must try! 

Thanks again for discussing this, Bluesky! A form only grows when people take interest in it and keep pushing its limits.

Deep respect,

Erick

[Oramac]

is to go at him with a style so friggin unorthodox that he can't read what I'm about to do like he could when I adopted a forward grip.

The next steps to advance the reverse grip style are to try to overcome extra time it takes to swing a blade, and learn to cover the open areas it leaves open by default. Most forward wielders don't have to adapt very much to someone using a reverse grip with current practices, but could reverse grip compensate somehow for this? It would be unorthodox, but unorthodox methods can work too sometimes.

I've made mention of it before, but I'm actively working on solutions for both of these points.  I know my odds of success are extremely low, and I know that I'm more likely to discover my own strengths/weaknesses than I am to make any real headway into validating RG, but that's basically my goal.  I'm not quite ready to post what I've been working up yet, but I'm sure it'll happen in the not too distant future.

[eerockk]

I've made mention of it before, but I'm actively working on solutions for both of these points.  I know my odds of success are extremely low, and I know that I'm more likely to discover my own strengths/weaknesses than I am to make any real headway into validating RG, but that's basically my goal.  I'm not quite ready to post what I've been working up yet, but I'm sure it'll happen in the not too distant future.

The only way to succeed is to do it! I'm sure what you come up with will look completely different from the Starkiller approach! If you succeed, awesome! If not, then you'll have learned how to better attack an opponent using a reverse grip against you. You have nothing to lose in that regard; you will be stronger!

[Oramac]

The only way to succeed is to do it! I'm sure what you come up with will look completely different from the Starkiller approach! If you succeed, awesome! If not, then you'll have learned how to better attack an opponent using a reverse grip against you. You have nothing to lose in that regard; you will be stronger!

It's interesting that you point it out in that way.  I've actually already found one huge weakness that nobody has mentioned yet (at least that I've seen).  I'll wait until I post my full thoughts to elaborate, suffice it to say that it's a tough one to counter.

[Kempodragon]

I've been lurking for awhile now and I find this discussion fascinating. I use both forward and reverse grips all the time in my boffer matches, usually to try and get in close and bind my opponent. My sensei was a big man (6', 4"), but he liked to get in close rather than use his longer range. Much of my fighting style is based on this approach, and  most opponents have trouble with someone wielding 2 long blades getting up close. I have a video of the Portcon Boffer Championship Finals in which I was a participant posted on vimeo, (I'm the tall skinny guy with 2 blades in the first match) In it, I use both grips so you can see for yourself. The only reason I didn't advance farther was I forfeited a match since i accidentally hit my opponent in the face, even though he admitted it was partially his fault(Face hits are verboten in our matches). Here's the link: https://vimeo.com/45541638. Check out the other videos for ideas on fighting.

[Bluesky]

I understood that Armor is great for training, I would just once again caution over use; it can make you do things you would not do in real life because of no fear of failure but that does not mean you shouldn't have a good whack at each other. Anyway just food for thought. (I was kidding about the half-swording! Aussie humor sometimes doesn't come over, sorry!)

For RG it is important to play your game; if you are playing theirs you will be in trouble mate. Clearly mark your range and effective cutting reach and power like a sphere around your body. Obviously a lunge to the left changes that sphere; imagine your sphere is a faint yellow around your body. Quick sharp strikes like in Makashi at your head is not the RG way but if you hang around and try to out finesse you will be in trouble.

RG is like a boxer; it slips, it moves, it breathes constantly and circles like a boxer. Like I have mentioned it is tidal; power one direction fast the other. RG does not block hard, it is fluid; always countering and returning to guard.

I hope everyone knows that I only have disagreed here respectfully; I hope the tone of my posts reflects my love of the blade and its practice. I have tried to answer a great deal of posts mixing and matching answers and so I am sorry if it has come off as disagreeing; I am just trying to provide my thoughts and stimulate the development here of a true RG style. I have tried to speak here to many posts so that this thread is a more theory-heavy thread for those who love the history and the ideas behind the sword. Once you are training with a good master; there will come a point where without the theory you wont progress further; I have seen this time and again; talented fencers and swordsmen/women who have risen on talent/bodytype/skill only to lose to someone who is older and moves slower using angles and leverage. There is always a clash between the shield and the spear, one advances and so the other advances. If I cause you to face more people who suddenly switch in their roof guard from forward to reverse and power cut at your head then that will make everyone's FG evolve

Here are some important RG principles:

Once you are familiar with the 3 Attitudes (Angles of Attack: Descending, Ascending and Horizontal) Play with 5 Vital Principles of RG: Alternation, Flanking, Initiative, Guards and Faking.

Alternation: Changing sides and angles of attack means the traditional eight lines that they are used to facing and blocking don't occur. Instead of a classic horizontal cut they are blocking a H-cut that is angled down or up slightly causing unusual messages and problems. Altering sides weakens their center and gives you more time and space. Changing levels is the same as changing sides. Try not to clash and bind with RG; especially with a lightsaber. Allot of the movements that are used in metal swords just don't translate except in our imaginations!

Faking: Turn the previous drills into Faking drills. Because RG is a momentum weapon it likes to stay in motion once it starts. Use your shoulders/arms and cuts to open attitudes and then harness the gathered momentum into your redirected cut. Faking is a trick question that confuses and mistimes. Forward grip is fast and flexible and purposeful. To overcome speed and deceptions are powerful allies. Faking causes hesitation and doubt for the few moments you need. Slip one way and then move the other and do not think that because they are large they are not mobile and can keep up with your movements, big guys can move fast as the little guys.

Flanking: Standing feet together lunge to all 8 directions as though attacked in front and behind. Learn to move, recover, watch and move. then practice Angle steps, strafing and circling. Always move with smooth surefooted steps and then add faking only after your movements are effortless and graceful. TPLA teaches these things brilliantly. Do not trust forward and backward steps with RG. They should only be done consciously to lure and bait the FG into committing to their path. Move with every intention of flanking and running through. RG reach is not as limited as is often believed; make sure your full reach is harnessed.

Guards: Guards occupy the space; from them all attacks and defenses flow and they give you time to respond because they close one of the gates/quadrants of attack. Holding you blade low encourages attacks you can parry and respond to with great success but traditionally my old fencing teacher would be mortified. RG is an advanced grip that should compliment your FG, a Yin to the Yang. Guards strengthen your attacks and defenses and influence their choices. Study the Western concept of the Guard. The guards are the same FG and RG; there are differences bu they are all internal and where your power lies. Learn to know your fastest cut and your most powerful cut from every guard. RG will use two hands/ one hand and switches to FG to great effect as well as lead hand releases and rear hand RG! RG is not about flourishes and tricks and disarms (Or though there are many tricks) RG is positionally strong; boring, sound and powerful. Trust in your guards, always finish in a guard and always control the center. RG and the center is a whole other topic along with RG Thrusting.

Initiative: This is the most important thing to understand and use. One must always be in a state of Taking or Gaining Initiative. Understanding this was part of the genius of the Western Schools. If they are attacking. do not defend, attack their attack and turn it into your attack. If you are attacking, continue your attack and do not stop and lose your Initiative. If you are wasting time and energy you will neither gain nor take the Initiative.

What are your thoughts and what are your techniques that use these principles?
What are the most effective RG tactics and strategies?
Why are Guards so important?
What is the Gaining and Taking the Initiative for you?
What are 5 RG common attacks?
What causes grief to the RG and how it responds to this?
Is RG a Form 5 style?

Kind Regards
Bluesky

[Bluesky]

Most people think of RG in terms of appearance or its obvious weaknesses; can anyone spot why this is bad RG?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCDzZzx_xqU" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCDzZzx_xqU</a>

Even this form has serious problems...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt9iUNdgfZA" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt9iUNdgfZA</a>

The Chinese forward/reverse has many fluid techniques that allow a master to fight off more then one attacker and to defeat all other weapons.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrtfH_VgGZ0" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrtfH_VgGZ0</a>

Likewise in the west, battle hardened fighters clashed again and again and developed guards and cuts that were battle tested over and over again in a brutal Darwinian process.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj4Ng6DBfrg" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj4Ng6DBfrg</a>

 

The Reverse Grip was a advanced technique not taught to beginners; and was used to overcome at the right time more skilled fighters. With RG; try and duplicate these series of movements in the last video. You will find out the parallels and where things differ for yourself. Just as the Chinese seems flowery when it is deadly; RG has a darker, more practical side that comes out of a need to defeat a experienced player. I hope you have found this post interesting and the videos good content.

Now for some fun watch how fast and explosive these guys are: (LOL 2min in they take the time to film tying their shoe!)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIKMPIFJkzk" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIKMPIFJkzk</a>

Reverse Grip learns much from this....

Kind Regards
Bluesky

[Master VorNach]

I have to be brief because of the hour.
I've takena quick look through some of the sources you cite and Firoe does mention a reverse gripo a few times but for a specifc purpose, under limted circumstances, not as a stand alone method of employing the longsword.

              "Posta di Bicornia:(“Two-Horned” position) Fiore’s thrusting guard holding the sword horizontally in a high middle position with the left
               hand in a reverse grip. Suited for thrusting in close. "


To say that some of the traditional German and Italian guards put the point behind you and present the pommel to the opponent and describe this as a historic version of Reverse Grip is somewhat disingenuous. There are a number of guards and transitions where the point is carried to the side or rear as part of an ongoing movement. However the combatant does not change the position of their hands  to a Reverse Grip during this movement. The mechanics of moving the sword while hold it in a reverse grip and when holding it normally are very different.

When holding a longer weapon (poleaxe, spear or hald sworded longsword) using a reverse grip with one hand on the weapon is an entirely different exercise than using reverse grip with one or even 2 hands on a saber hilt. Again the mechanics of the situation are very different with these exceedingly different weapons.

There are some references to a reverse grip in the HEMA source material but it's in a small minority of techniques and tactics with limited application, as opposed to the sweeping generalization that since it's mentioned it was used everywhere, extensively. 

You have access to some very nice historic sources, I would be interested in seeing any examples of your interpretations as they apply to the lightsaber as well.

Likewise in the west, battle hardened fighters clashed again and again and developed guards and cuts that were battle tested over and over again in a brutal Darwinian process.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj4Ng6DBfrg# 

The Reverse Grip was a advanced technique not taught to beginners; and was used to overcome at the right time more skilled fighters. With RG; try and duplicate these series of movements in the last video. You will find out the parallels and where things differ for yourself. Just as the Chinese seems flowery when it is deadly; RG has a darker, more practical side that comes out of a need to defeat a experienced player. I hope you have found this post interesting and the videos good content.

Now for some fun watch how fast and explosive these guys are: (LOL 2min in they take the time to film tying their shoe!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIKMPIFJkzk#ws

Reverse Grip learns much from this....
Kind Regards
Bluesky

The reverse grip was not applied at all (except for a little bit of halfswording in the Gladitores video).
Would you please elaborate on what you mean by RG learning much from these?

I understood that Armor is great for training, I would just once again caution over use; it can make you do things you would not do in real life because of no fear of failure but that does not mean you shouldn't have a good whack at each other.

Safety gear is vital for everyone involved. Fear of failure means you are not practicing your techniques as effectively as you otherwise might. You are also putting your training partners unnecessarily at risk.
Fighting in armor does not mean there is no fear of failure, but a reduced fear that you will get injured by an accident.