Sith or Jedi?

[Darth_Arkanus]

Very well, it's canon, so must be very grudgingly accepted. I still say that it is a dumb cop out though, to give the Dark side a "price". What is the point of turning to the dark side to increase your personal power, only to have your greatest asset, your body, withered and destroyed by the very thing you seek out to make you more powerful?

My own, personal, take on things is that only certain Dark side abilities cause bodily damage; the main one being force lightning. The reason, I believe, is because to wield so much destructive energy through the body too often begins to show just how frail the flesh form really is! It is, to use the Jedi's Crystal Code analogy, like overloading your saber crystal. You can do it a few times, perhaps with only minor damage; the odd fracture here and there. But do it too often and you risk shattering your crystal completely! So too I believe it is with the more destructive powers.

As for my suggestion of Sidious helping Vader against Tyranus, approximately 1 part sarcasm, to 4 parts genuine thought!

Was that a kind of sarcasm or do you really read that somewhere Darth Arkanus?

So i finally found the first part of what i was reffering before and i write it down word for word so that you may benefit from that intel. :

"While the Dark Side offers a quick path to power for those who feel the flow of the force, it also extracts a high price from those who dipinto the well too frequently. This price takes the form of a long term withering of the charackters physical attributes. Early in a darksiders career, the ratio of power to negative effect runs in favor to the power the dark side provides. Each time a force-sensitive charackter calls on the dark side, however the urge to again feel the electric flow of power grows stronger. It becomes easier to gain Dark Side Points, to fall deeper and deeper into the darkness . In the middle stages of a charackters career as the charackter becomes first tainted and then dark in nature, the power the dark side provides begins to collect what is owed to it. With great effort, a balance can be attained for a while. As a charackter reaches higher levels the long term effects of dark side use begin to show. The charackter grows weaker in body, all the while growing stronger and stronger in the dark side of the force. Eventually, the darksiders body begins to fail as it is corrupted and rotted away by the darkness and evil flowing through it."

The Dark Side Soucebook Page 39

[Kitra]

Very well, it's canon, so must be very grudgingly accepted. I still say that it is a dumb cop out though, to give the Dark side a "price". What is the point of turning to the dark side to increase your personal power, only to have your greatest asset, your body, withered and destroyed by the very thing you seek out to make you more powerful?

My own, personal, take on things is that only certain Dark side abilities cause bodily damage; the main one being force lightning. The reason, I believe, is because to wield so much destructive energy through the body too often begins to show just how frail the flesh form really is! It is, to use the Jedi's Crystal Code analogy, like overloading your saber crystal. You can do it a few times, perhaps with only minor damage; the odd fracture here and there. But do it too often and you risk shattering your crystal completely! So too I believe it is with the more destructive powers.

As for my suggestion of Sidious helping Vader against Tyranus, approximately 1 part sarcasm, to 4 parts genuine thought!

If you like I can give you more information on the withering process or would you like to just stop learning about the “canon” now and keep your momentary perception of it? Both would be absolutely fine since I believe that you should go with what you feel good with.

Ah I see. I suggested as much but thank you for pointing that out!
Well Sidious already had known the most outcomes since at that time he had a group of Dark Side Seers at his command which knew the most important points in time in Sidious timeline. Basicly he was a step ahead of everyone all the time.
So he didn’t need to use any dark side power which in turn would have unmasked him prematurely before Anakin as a Force practitioner.

You can read it in a whole Book surrounding that story. When im home I can pm you the name if interested.

If I can assist you any further then I would be glad to share.

Best wishes

Kitra

[Master Rel]

"While the Dark Side offers a quick path to power for those who feel the flow of the force, it also extracts a high price from those who dipinto the well too frequently. This price takes the form of a long term withering of the charackters physical attributes. Early in a darksiders career, the ratio of power to negative effect runs in favor to the power the dark side provides. Each time a force-sensitive charackter calls on the dark side, however the urge to again feel the electric flow of power grows stronger. It becomes easier to gain Dark Side Points, to fall deeper and deeper into the darkness . In the middle stages of a charackters career as the charackter becomes first tainted and then dark in nature, the power the dark side provides begins to collect what is owed to it. With great effort, a balance can be attained for a while. As a charackter reaches higher levels the long term effects of dark side use begin to show. The charackter grows weaker in body, all the while growing stronger and stronger in the dark side of the force. Eventually, the darksiders body begins to fail as it is corrupted and rotted away by the darkness and evil flowing through it."

The Dark Side Soucebook Page 39

Very well, it's canon, so must be very grudgingly accepted. I still say that it is a dumb cop out though, to give the Dark side a "price". What is the point of turning to the dark side to increase your personal power, only to have your greatest asset, your body, withered and destroyed by the very thing you seek out to make you more powerful?

My own, personal, take on things is that only certain Dark side abilities cause bodily damage; the main one being force lightning.

And thus the baseline of the issues at hand.

Opinions and what we would like it to be.

The dark side corrupts.

Falling back on the video games and fringe EU, it leaves fans with confusing ideas of the whole.  Certainly a dark sider who never harmed anyone and just researched the dark side would not be as at risk for corruption, but this is not the guy or girl wielding wizbang lightning, dominating hundreds of minds, and yanking out souls.

It is the reality of the fantasy, set in stone, the dark side corrupts.

Jedi attempt to avoid corruption.

The sith greedily accept corruption.

Grey play hot potato with corruption

[Darth_Arkanus]

And thus the baseline of the issues at hand.

Opinions and what we would like it to be.

The dark side corrupts.

Falling back on the video games and fringe EU, it leaves fans with confusing ideas of the whole.  Certainly a dark sider who never harmed anyone and just researched the dark side would not be as at risk for corruption, but this is not the guy or girl wielding wizbang lightning, dominating hundreds of minds, and yanking out souls.

It is the reality of the fantasy, set in stone, the dark side corrupts.

Jedi attempt to avoid corruption.

The sith greedily accept corruption.

Grey play hot potato with corruption

Ultimately, we all must accept our fundamental natures.....we can do no other.

[Master Rel]

Ultimately, we all must accept our fundamental natures.....we can do no other.

And thus a rung up the ladder of enlightenment 

[Darth_Arkanus]

And thus a rung up the ladder of enlightenment 

I am a slow learner though. hehe

[Kitra]

I am a slow learner though. hehe

So we all may be patient teachers of what we share and you deem worthy to know.

[RogueLeader]

And thus the baseline of the issues at hand.

Opinions and what we would like it to be.

The dark side corrupts.

Falling back on the video games and fringe EU, it leaves fans with confusing ideas of the whole.  Certainly a dark sider who never harmed anyone and just researched the dark side would not be as at risk for corruption, but this is not the guy or girl wielding wizbang lightning, dominating hundreds of minds, and yanking out souls.

It is the reality of the fantasy, set in stone, the dark side corrupts.

Jedi attempt to avoid corruption.

The sith greedily accept corruption.

Grey play hot potato with corruption

How can you be so sure?

[Tsurabisu]

Wow. I'm gone for a day and there's lots of new good stuff. I like the passages from the books, and I read up on the "Mask" ability, and you're correct about several things about it. The skill was created for the board game.

"The "Mask" ability was proposed by the Star Wars Roleplaying Game as a method of resolving the debate behind Palpatine's transfiguration during his battle with the Jedi Order. Sources had suggested that Palpatine had been hiding his true features until the battle, and when combined with the damage from the lightning, the result was the disfiguration seen on-screen." (Taken from wookieepedia)

The article does go on to say, however that "It is said that Palpatine, a master at Sith alchemy, may have used this technique in order to conceal his appearance from the people of the Republic and present a more appealing facade. If he did, his encounter with Mace Windu and several other Jedi Masters changed that, when Mace reflected Palpatine's lightning blast back at him, disfiguring the Sith Lord's face."

It says "may have" and "If he did" Nothing canon says that he in fact did use it while the comic "Sithisis" says that he was devoured by a Sith Wyrm and that by killing the Wyrm from the inside, he is able to alter his physical form.

On the subject that Dark side corrupts, again, mater of choice. One would have to choose to abuse the Force. Also, as I posted before, rarely is anyone physically changed by the Force.
" Darth Tyranus and Galen Marek, for example, did not suffer any of the physical degeneration of the dark side, and their eyes only assumed the yellow hue during moments of anger.[24][25] Luke Skywalker suffered none of these effects during his brief bout of intense anger that allowed him to disarm Darth Vader, nor did Kyle Katarn during either of the times that he was (at least partially) driven by the dark side against Jerec and later Desann" (Taken from wookieepedia)

"It should be noted that Sidious's most drastic physical alterations occurred during the lightsaber duel with Jedi Master Mace Windu; Windu having used his own lightsaber to deflect Sidious's Force lightning causing the uncontrolled energy to radically alter Sidious's physical features." (Taken from wookieepedia)
"The worst case of this transformation would be Darth Nihilus, who not only was completely consumed by the dark side mentally but also physically. He had become a living entity of the dark side of the Force and uncaring of all life." (Taken from wookieepedia)  What this says to me is that it may break down the body, but what you become after is a physical representation of the Force, so it's not really that your body is destroyed over time, you just become one with the Force.

A theory I have, if you'll allow me. It is said that the Dark side destroys the body of the user over time. I could argue that so does the Light side of the Force. But instead of taking a little piece each time you use it, the Light side waits until you're finished (Dead) and then takes it all at once. And that is why stronger Jedi Masters vanish when they die.

About Sith being evil, the last thing I will say about it is one of my favorite quotes. "Evil is a word used by the ignorant and the weak. The dark side is about survival. It's about unleashing your inner power. It glorifies the strength of the individual."
―Darth Zannah

[Darth_Arkanus]

A theory I have, if you'll allow me. It is said that the Dark side destroys the body of the user over time. I could argue that so does the Light side of the Force. But instead of taking a little piece each time you use it, the Light side waits until you're finished (Dead) and then takes it all at once. And that is why stronger Jedi Masters vanish when they die.

Yes, a theory I completely agree with. The only fly in that ointment is it points to the likes of Qui-gon Jinn being a lesser powered Master than Yoda and Obi-wan Kenobi. That in no way disproves the idea though.

About Sith being evil, the last thing I will say about it is one of my favorite quotes. "Evil is a word used by the ignorant and the weak. The dark side is about survival. It's about unleashing your inner power. It glorifies the strength of the individual."
―Darth Zannah

I really, REALLY like this! It HAS to be worth some Darkside points!

[Aurentis]

It's worth dark side points, but I have to admit I disagree with that quote on several levels, that I don't really have time to get into right now.

[TheHobbitofDune]

"Evil is a word used by the ignorant and the weak. The dark side is about survival. It's about unleashing your inner power. It glorifies the strength of the individual."
―Darth Zannah

1. I shouldn't even have to say why that first sentence is dumb.

2. Survival? Thats like saying that everyone is out to get you and that you can't trust anyone, which is wrong.

3. Yeah, thats all fine and dandy, but the way that they unleash their inner power is evil.

4. Oh yeah, thats totally a good thing, giving people an ego boost and making them arrogant.

[BenPass]

And thus a rung up the ladder of enlightenment 

That's where you and I disagree Rel Friendly disagreement, but disagreement nonetheless. Without getting too much into real world philosophy, it is the constant struggle against our nature, the constant effort to be more than we are, that exemplifies the Jedi in my mind. Rather than being vengeful or petty (as is in our nature), they seek to better themselves. Then again, that argument is based heavily against the Roman Stoic idea of accepting nature as unchangeable...

[Master Rel]

That's where you and I disagree Rel Friendly disagreement, but disagreement nonetheless. Without getting too much into real world philosophy, it is the constant struggle against our nature, the constant effort to be more than we are, that exemplifies the Jedi in my mind. Rather than being vengeful or petty (as is in our nature), they seek to better themselves. Then again, that argument is based heavily against the Roman Stoic idea of accepting nature as unchangeable...

Ben...I was being nice

Thinking that enlightenment could be granted even in measure over an interweb debate lol.


The Dalai Lama stops by a hot dog vendor and says he will be one with everything  

About Sith being evil, the last thing I will say about it is one of my favorite quotes. "Evil is a word used by the ignorant and the weak. The dark side is about survival. It's about unleashing your inner power. It glorifies the strength of the individual."
―Darth Zannah

Whew...I want to leave this one alone because it is your favorite, but on the other hand I just gotta say something.

On the positive side that is a great quote for a villain.

On the negative side that is a crazy quote for a regular person  

I had a full breakdown of the quote but it ended up being a lot meaner than I would have ever intended...so I deleted it.

The quote is perfect for representing the sith...in all that that entails.

[BenPass]

Ben...I was being nice

Thinking that enlightenment could be granted even in measure over an interweb debate lol.


The Dalai Lama stops by a hot dog vendor and says he will be one with everything  

 

Ah, my misunderstanding. Sorry about that!