Sith or Jedi story

[Nhylus]

Honestly most people I find that defend the Sith or try to find an in between of gray and dark, would, in my opinion, be slain by Sith for weakness. Dark Jedi is one thing, and I feel that most of the people/RPers that align with "sith ideals" are more aligned to being a Dark Jedi than they are Sith. Sith are flat out cruel, merciless, ruthless, and selfish. The Jedi and Sith may be two sides of one coin, and both have their flaws, but the Jedi will always be the closest to "the right choice" for me. I am completely secular in RL, but the ideals the Jedi have are closer to my own than the Sith. For many reasons. I believe that some people need to learn to help themselves, and I believe in helping people when they truly need it. Everything in moderation, but biased towards positive/good intentions. As for 2nd chances since some of you mentioned it, I believe that 2nd chances are only merited when both parties have resolved and put to rest the issue that gave birth to the situation. You should never given people more chances blindly and accept their mistake simply because. You should address it, and so should they, 2nd chances are not evil, but you must exercise caution and much patience with them. If you are burned from giving someone another chance, it is because you let yourself get burned.

[Darth_Arkanus]

Honestly most people I find that defend the Sith or try to find an in between of gray and dark, would, in my opinion, be slain by Sith for weakness. Dark Jedi is one thing, and I feel that most of the people/RPers that align with "sith ideals" are more aligned to being a Dark Jedi than they are Sith. Sith are flat out cruel, merciless, ruthless, and selfish. The Jedi and Sith may be two sides of one coin, and both have their flaws, but the Jedi will always be the closest to "the right choice" for me. I am completely secular in RL, but the ideals the Jedi have are closer to my own than the Sith. For many reasons. I believe that some people need to learn to help themselves, and I believe in helping people when they truly need it. Everything in moderation, but biased towards positive/good intentions.

In this though I think you miss one essential truth.....some people are sick of being the "good guy" & getting excreted on for it! There is only so much unrequited altruism any human being can take before they say, "to hell with it! I'm looking out for number one & the rest of you be damned!" This fantasy gives those of us chance to do something that we simply can't in life, because of convention, responsibilities & the rule of the do-gooders.

[Nhylus]

In this though I think you miss one essential truth.....some people are sick of being the "good guy" & getting excreted on for it! There is only so much unrequited altruism any human being can take before they say, "to hell with it! I'm looking out for number one & the rest of you be damned!" This fantasy gives those of us chance to do something that we simply can't in life, because of convention, responsibilities & the rule of the do-gooders.

I think there is a flaw in what you mean by being a good guy and being sick of it. I am not saying go out and be friendly to the world or put yourself #2 to everyone else. Im just saying that you can be helpful or be a good person when it needs to be done. I think most people get upset with being a nice person all the time because there is an expectation for reward or praise. And then revert to a more "me me me" as a way to feed their desire. People should just be nice or good to each other for the sake of it, not expecting anything for it. If I pass a homeless man on the street, I am not a bad person for not giving him any money. I wouldnt be a good person if I did, I'd simply be a person who did a good deed and thought nothing of it afterward. Jedi have a code that dedicate them to this, but theyre not the only good people in the galaxy. Like i said, most everyone on this forum who RPs Sith reminds me more of a Dark Jedi than they do a Sith. Sith are the kind of people that would kick a friend off a cliff into a sarlacc pit and then throw 15 thermal detonators in afterwards.

[Aurentis]

People should just be nice or good to each other for the sake of it, not expecting anything for it.

THIS.

Doing good things because you expect reward or notoriety for them is, ultimately, not doing good deeds from a philosophical ethics standpoint.

Too many people equate Sith with 'complete and total freedom,' but fail to realize the exact thing Nhylus is describing here.
Point for you, Nhylus!

[Darth_Arkanus]

THIS.

Doing good things because you expect reward or notoriety for them is, ultimately, not doing good deeds from a philosophical ethics standpoint.

Too many people equate Sith with 'complete and total freedom,' but fail to realize the exact thing Nhylus is describing here.
Point for you, Nhylus!

well i can only relate my own experience in life, but I've done good for the sake of it, and eventually got tired of having bad done in return. Ever heard the saying; "no good deed goes unpunished" THAT has been me. I see Sith as a passport to not HAVING to care, or be good or be trodden on. I think you'll find that's part of what attracts most fallen Jedi too.

In reality though, not caring is a smokescreen for caring too much, and it being too painful to deal with. If that makes weak; FINE!!!!!!

[kagemusha shin]

In this though I think you miss one essential truth.....some people are sick of being the "good guy" & getting excreted on for it! There is only so much unrequited altruism any human being can take before they say, "to hell with it! I'm looking out for number one & the rest of you be damned!" This fantasy gives those of us chance to do something that we simply can't in life, because of convention, responsibilities & the rule of the do-gooders.

But here is the problem sith are ruthless warriors and most of the self claimed sith can't even stomach gutting a deer. Smells bad but you do what you need to survive sith do this and to survive you give no mercy no quarter to even maters or apprentices.

[Aurentis]

Nobody ever said you were weak, Arkanus.  I promise you nobody here thinks you're weak.

If that's how you're getting treated for doing something decent, then you are well within your rights to cut that person out of your life.  They can only walk all over you if you let them, and saying "hey, if that's how you're going to be, I'm out" is not being a bad person.  The bad thing to do would be to respond in kind.  There is absolutely nothing wrong or inherently "bad" with wishing someone a nice life, saying goodbye and never seeing that person again.  Asserting yourself is not being a jerk unless you're asserting yourself by being a jerk.

And if it's just some random dude on the street, well, someone probably did something foul to his Cheerios and he's not well-adjusted enough to not take it out on other people.

You can be a "good guy" and not get walked on.

[Darth_Arkanus]

Nobody ever said you were weak, Arkanus.  I promise you nobody here thinks you're weak.

If that's how you're getting treated for doing something decent, then you are well within your rights to cut that person out of your life.  They can only walk all over you if you let them, and saying "hey, if that's how you're going to be, I'm out" is not being a bad person.  The bad thing to do would be to respond in kind.  There is absolutely nothing wrong or inherently "bad" with wishing someone a nice life, saying goodbye and never seeing that person again.  Asserting yourself is not being a jerk unless you're asserting yourself by being a jerk.

And if it's just some random dude on the street, well, someone probably did something foul to his Cheerios and he's not well-adjusted enough to not take it out on other people.

You can be a "good guy" and not get walked on.

This is something that I am still working on, and it's taking time. "Weakness" and my absolute hatred of it is a very personal problem, and whenever I think of the Sith and their quest for personal power, it brings all of that to the surface.

Kagemushi Shin (did I get that right, without looking?) I have never gutted an animal, but i'm not squeamish (as we say here in the UK) I think, in my case, I care about the people I care about and would do ANYTHING for them, but anyone who does not fall into that category try to harm those who do; WATCH OUT!

I'm still getting over the "being walked all over" bit though.

Sorry, I know this is veering the thread off course, so I'll stop.

[kagemusha shin]

This is something that I am still working on, and it's taking time. "Weakness" and my absolute hatred of it is a very personal problem, and whenever I think of the Sith and their quest for personal power, it brings all of that to the surface.

Kagemushi Shin (did I get that right, without looking?) I have never gutted an animal, but i'm not squeamish (as we say here in the UK) I think, in my case, I care about the people I care about and would do ANYTHING for them, but anyone who does not fall into that category try to harm those who do; WATCH OUT!

I'm still getting over the "being walked all over" bit though.

Sorry, I know this is veering the thread off course, so I'll stop.

No its not veering to know how you come to realization you are Jedi or sith you must have a story so this is part of it. And to accept ones weakness make you string because you learn to make a weakness a strength.

[Nhylus]

THIS.

Doing good things because you expect reward or notoriety for them is, ultimately, not doing good deeds from a philosophical ethics standpoint.

Too many people equate Sith with 'complete and total freedom,' but fail to realize the exact thing Nhylus is describing here.
Point for you, Nhylus!

Aha thank you friend. I must agree with illusion of freedom as a sith. They have an neverending thirst for self-worth or reward that will never be quenched. Jedi don't run into this problem because they don't need to find value in the actions or deeds they perform. Serenity/Happiness isn't something that needs to be pursued, it is a state of mind within oneself.

[RogueLeader]

Arkanus, do you like My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic?

[Kresnik]

I think the main distinction here is that people are identifying as solely - Sith or Jedi, when in reality they are more or less extreme opposites of each other and in the SW universe a Sith is truly a dark, twisted by the force, powerful, evil, controlling, lead by emotions and what not . Jedi are the polar opposite, train not to act on emotion, commune and live in the force instead of USING the force, powerful but modest and controlled etc.  Sith are the Nazis of World War 2 while the Jedi are say the U.S.A of World War 2, peacekeepers until they are drawn into war etc.  (obviously that is not what we are now)

The reality of it is it should be a debate of how "dark" or "light" you are.  Writing a character I tend to go along with my own belief system and my own experiences.

I could never identify with a true Sith because they are beyond darkness, Sith are true blood thirsty, selfish and not capable of good in any way, not capable of love just lust etc I could never truly identify with the Jedi because their practices are authoritarian and presumptuous on so many levels.  Stealing children from families simply because they show force capabilities ... "Taking control" of planets or cultures that do not go along with their system of rule etc. 

In the SW universe if I showed force potential, I would probably be plucked from my family as a young child, trained in the Jedi arts, probably have a career as a Jedi but I would fall in line with the philosophy of Qui Gon Jin (sp to lazy to look it up) and refuse to be a part of the council but still walk the Jedi path but in a very singular way. 

It more or less follows along with my religious and philosophical principles in real life. 

There is no right or wrong in every situation,  there is no absolute good or absolute evil, it is all about not harming those around you and living in harmony with those who you share your space with and the earth itself. 

[Master Rel]

An interesting pattern I am seeing over the time spent here on the forum, during our many many many Jedi or sith thread/post/conversations is that the ideal of being independent and doing what you want the way you want to" comes up time and time again.

I do admit, being my own boss has its advantages.  In real life being my own boss is much more rewarding than working for someone else...but...I have no support structure, no backup unless I pay someone, and no peers/subordinates/superiors to call on when needed.

The idea of being your own Jedi or sith or whatever you imagine the title of your fantasy Force sensitive character (not throwing stones...I play a 108yrs old blue elephant alien after all) is great until you consider the foundation and potential for growth.

Let us look outside the box for a moment...a Halo or SoD type game...it seems your character is an individual, part of a small team...but in fact they are part of a large unit that is part of a larger unit...they went to a boot camp, A school, B/C schools, trained in the field and at home...even mercenaries started somewhere.

Take a mercenary.  An individual, free to be and do whatever he wants...but...he started somewhere...somewhere with rules, regulations, and restrictions...this is how a foundation is laid down.

Yes there are extreme examples of video game mercenaries that trained themselves or whatever...but these are not the norm.

Jedi or sith...they need to start somewhere...somewhere with rules, regulations, and restrictions...this is how a foundation is laid down.

Can a Force sensitive go another path altogether without the Jedi or sith process...of course...but then they would not be Jedi or sith, they would be something else.

And if on their own or with limited resources how far can they go?

I am on board that pretty much none of us could achieve the lofty Jedi pinnacle nor could we sink to the depths of sith selfishness...but most all of us could manage a middle ground with mostly good intentions.

Like we do every day, within reason.

But the characters who are floating are not Jedi or sith.

So Jedi or sith...more like which way do you lean or which side of the fence are you hanging off of...lol

If I were Force sensitive, I would hope that I could follow a more Jedi path rather than a selfish sith direction...



As for the thought of doing good for reward of some kind...one either does things because it is the right thing to do or they do what they want.

I am on the side of doing right for its own sake 

[Darth_Arkanus]

One thing I am noticing as I engage in these, often futile, jedi/sith discussions is how the jedi-minded are quite free with the insults towards their darker counterparts, whereas you see we Sith-minded being far less openly insulting about the jedi. Curious that.

[B1ondeange1]

One thing I am noticing as I engage in these, often futile, jedi/sith discussions is how the jedi-minded are quite free with the insults towards their darker counterparts, whereas you see we Sith-minded being far less openly insulting about the jedi. Curious that.

funny that, I've noticed it myself lol. Even Jedi can't be perfect.
I agree rel, extremely few ppl in real life who identify themselves with one path or the other will take it to the extremes. We act to varying degrees down either path, and few ppl will ever stick purely to one path or another. And noone can deny Lucas created a universe in which Jedi are meant to be seen as good, sith as bad.
if you go as ideals, then I'm somewhere down the path of the Jedi. I don't believe in all the doctrine of the order and whatever, but I identify with the jedi far more than the sith.
as just one point, I don't believe in only looking out for yourself, I believe in helping others. Doesn't mean I'm going to throw my life away just to help another.