Sith or Jedi story

[Kitra]

I did not chime in earlier because this seems like a thread we have all been down before. And the result is the same as before. The original question was simply looking for why each of us chooses one path or the other.  I will never understand why we cannot just say our reasons for choosing a path without giving reasons why the other path is wrong. I understand the need to explain why the other path does not appeal, but to argue that it is the wrong way to live does not make sense.

We all have our reasons for liking or disliking certain characters, groups, etc. And we have a right to our opinions. But so does the other guy.

Our alignment is a deeply personal thing that draws from our own beliefs and experiences and no one can say it is right or wrong. We may disagree and we have the right to that as well. But the mudslinging that goes on with the threads like this one blows my mind. What is there to gain?

We can argue Jedi and Sith until we are blue in the face. There is no right answer. There is no wrong answer. And most importantly, there is no prize at the end. Nobody is going to “win.” We will just irritate each other and loose friends, and for what?

I love to read members’ reasons for choosing one path or the other (no matter which one it is). It makes me sad to read the “you’re wrong for thinking that way” counter arguments.

I consider myself on the Jedi path for various reasons. But I can assure you, that none of them are to feel superior, to bother anyone, or put anyone else down. If someone wants to be on the Sith, Grey Jedi, Dark Jedi, etc. …path, that is fine with me. It is there prerogative and I am always happy to heard reasons for why that path makes you happy.

Hmm you don’t understand that because of your perception of our conversations I guess.
We are not trying to put anybody down. We are sharing our believes and experiences as well as the form of view we gathered to match if others did that as well and if to which results they came.
With that you find yourself overthinking your ideas grow them more mature and evolve them to better accommodate your personality since wome take great pride into calling them affiliated into this or that morale code.
Of course there are some who try to make a special side fit no matter what but that is make believe a great game we played when we were younger and doesn’t loose its pull in older ages. Appaerently ^^

As far as I am concerned. I am having fun and don’t see anyone who is put down or bullyed upon.
We treat each other with respect and just share our ideas in an fruitful discussion. 

[Master Rel]

I did not chime in earlier because this seems like a thread we have all been down before. And the result is the same as before. The original question was simply looking for why each of us chooses one path or the other.  I will never understand why we cannot just say our reasons for choosing a path without giving reasons why the other path is wrong. I understand the need to explain why the other path does not appeal, but to argue that it is the wrong way to live does not make sense.

We all have our reasons for liking or disliking certain characters, groups, etc. And we have a right to our opinions. But so does the other guy.

Our alignment is a deeply personal thing that draws from our own beliefs and experiences and no one can say it is right or wrong. We may disagree and we have the right to that as well. But the mudslinging that goes on with the threads like this one blows my mind. What is there to gain?

We can argue Jedi and Sith until we are blue in the face. There is no right answer. There is no wrong answer. And most importantly, there is no prize at the end. Nobody is going to “win.” We will just irritate each other and loose friends, and for what?

I love to read members’ reasons for choosing one path or the other (no matter which one it is). It makes me sad to read the “you’re wrong for thinking that way” counter arguments.

I consider myself on the Jedi path for various reasons. But I can assure you, that none of them are to feel superior, to bother anyone, or put anyone else down. If someone wants to be on the Sith, Grey Jedi, Dark Jedi, etc. …path, that is fine with me. It is their prerogative and I am always happy to hear reasons for why that path makes them happy.

Spot on my friend.

I am on board the flag waving but I do agree...Jedi or sith...proclaim your allegiance and the reasons you like that one without disparaging the other would be refreshing, though unlikely to happen as it is much easier to point out faults.

But yes I agree.

Point.

 


PS
I favor the Jedi path as it makes the most sense to me on every level.  I appreciate the control, the service, and the dedication.  I picture the majority of Jedi as East Asian monks...meditating, counseling, debating, advising, etc. and this suits me.







 

[chicago.jedi]

Hmm you don’t understand that because of your perception of our conversations I guess.

I did not miss the point of the conversation. I read thread before I posted and it does get kind of “dark” at times.

My point is that these conversations are interesting. I enjoy the philosophical part of Star Wars, but I do not enjoy the name calling and finger pointing. More often than not these threads play out like a dirty campaign. The candidates tell you why you should not vote for the other guy rather than why you should vote for them.

We end up with team Jedi and team Sith. Team Jedi points out how the Sith are evil. They are into slavery, genocide, tyranny, etc. We have to have some mention of Hitler, too, almost like clockwork. Then team Sith accuses the Jedi of being elitists, baby snatchers, false idols, etc. and try to point out that the Sith are just misunderstood and the Jedi are actually the aggressors. Then there is the Anakin debate in which both sides try to use him as an example of how bad the other side is. And it goes back and forth and back and forth.

I am sure other people have been in school and had the task of writing a paper to convince someone of your opinion. The teach would always say, “Tell me why I should go along with your opinion, not why I should not go along with the other side of the argument.”

I have always aligned myself with the Jedi path. It is more in tune with other things I have done in my life such as the Boy Scouts, the military, fraternal organizations, etc. It just seems natural to me to follow the Jedi.  I also got picked on a lot as a kids and always kind of related to Luke. The Jedi were long gone and he was trying to stick to a path no one else was on. The Boy Scouts was past their hay day when I was a kid but I still enjoyed the organization and tried to stick with it when everyone else was into video games and sports. Even to this day I get pooped on at work for trying to do the right thing and follow rules, but I still take comfort in the ideals of the Jedi and soldier on even if I am the only one.

However, I did just read The Book of the Sith and I really enjoyed it. I do not agree with their logic and ways but I can see the appeal to it that other may have. I did not feel dirty after I read it, I just felt like I had heard another’s opinion.

My point is, we each have our reasons for choosing a side and it is rooted on our personality. And there is no right or wrong answer. In other threads I have found myself slammed with quotes from wookiepedia trying to prove me wrong. If I was arguing that R2-D2 was orange or that Jabba the Hut was a wookie, then you could prove me wrong with canon. But how can someone prove that another who likes the Jedi or Sith path is wrong? All of the canon and quotes in the world are not going to change a person. And I would like to hear why that person likes what he likes, not why I am wrong for what I like.

By no means am I saying that the entire forum is just hurtful and mean spirited. By and large, most members are cool. But every once in a while a thread gets kind of nasty and personal for no real reason. I am not trying to call anyone out. I am just trying to be a peace keeper and I hope it is seen as such.

May the Force be with you.

PS: Thank you, Jedi Relmeob. Your words are wisdom, as always.

[Darth_Arkanus]

I did not miss the point of the conversation. I read thread before I posted and it does get kind of “dark” at times.

My point is that these conversations are interesting. I enjoy the philosophical part of Star Wars, but I do not enjoy the name calling and finger pointing. More often than not these threads play out like a dirty campaign. The candidates tell you why you should not vote for the other guy rather than why you should vote for them.

We end up with team Jedi and team Sith. Team Jedi points out how the Sith are evil. They are into slavery, genocide, tyranny, etc. We have to have some mention of Hitler, too, almost like clockwork. Then team Sith accuses the Jedi of being elitists, baby snatchers, false idols, etc. and try to point out that the Sith are just misunderstood and the Jedi are actually the aggressors. Then there is the Anakin debate in which both sides try to use him as an example of how bad the other side is. And it goes back and forth and back and forth.

I am sure other people have been in school and had the task of writing a paper to convince someone of your opinion. The teach would always say, “Tell me why I should go along with your opinion, not why I should not go along with the other side of the argument.”

I have always aligned myself with the Jedi path. It is more in tune with other things I have done in my life such as the Boy Scouts, the military, fraternal organizations, etc. It just seems natural to me to follow the Jedi.  I also got picked on a lot as a kids and always kind of related to Luke. The Jedi were long gone and he was trying to stick to a path no one else was on. The Boy Scouts was past their hay day when I was a kid but I still enjoyed the organization and tried to stick with it when everyone else was into video games and sports. Even to this day I get pooped on at work for trying to do the right thing and follow rules, but I still take comfort in the ideals of the Jedi and soldier on even if I am the only one.

However, I did just read The Book of the Sith and I really enjoyed it. I do not agree with their logic and ways but I can see the appeal to it that other may have. I did not feel dirty after I read it, I just felt like I had heard another’s opinion.

My point is, we each have our reasons for choosing a side and it is rooted on our personality. And there is no right or wrong answer. In other threads I have found myself slammed with quotes from wookiepedia trying to prove me wrong. If I was arguing that R2-D2 was orange or that Jabba the Hut was a wookie, then you could prove me wrong with canon. But how can someone prove that another who likes the Jedi or Sith path is wrong? All of the canon and quotes in the world are not going to change a person. And I would like to hear why that person likes what he likes, not why I am wrong for what I like.

By no means am I saying that the entire forum is just hurtful and mean spirited. By and large, most members are cool. But every once in a while a thread gets kind of nasty and personal for no real reason. I am not trying to call anyone out. I am just trying to be a peace keeper and I hope it is seen as such.

May the Force be with you.

PS: Thank you, Jedi Relmeob. Your words are wisdom, as always.

Thank you! Your words have reminded me that I did my own fair share of name calling and politicking in this thread. For that, and for the offence I caused, I am very sorry.

I have some good friends here, and though we are on different sides of this particular point, I value their friendship very highly indeed and would not want to lose it.

I hope all concerned will accept the completeness of my contrition.

May the Force be with you!

[Kitra]

Hmm I have to admit that I always had nice conversations concerning this theme.
All participants respect the decision of anyone yet most are posting as well to reinforce they´re opinion and learn to evolve his own choice to even better accomodate ones personality.

Knowledge yet ignorance.

And till now I didnt recognized any kind of attack or aggression. Till now I perceive it as a very polite and nice exchange of ideas.

So as long as no one else brings something negative into the discussion it is fine.

[chicago.jedi]

Hmm I have to admit that I always had nice conversations concerning this theme.
All participants respect the decision of anyone yet most are posting as well to reinforce they´re opinion and learn to evolve his own choice to even better accomodate ones personality.

Knowledge yet ignorance.

And till now I didnt recognized any kind of attack or aggression. Till now I perceive it as a very polite and nice exchange of ideas.

So as long as no one else brings something negative into the discussion it is fine.

Kitra, I am not trying to start an argument with you. If you have not seen anything negative in this thread, then more power to you. I wish I could be that open minded and easy going. But I do think there have been a few feathers ruffled, my own included.

Allow me to throw out some thoughts about the different factions in a positive manor. I have already described my feelings on the Jedi and why I relate to them. But I find the Sith interesting, too. I used to see them as the bad guys but now I just see them as the other guys. Their passion and ambition is refreshing and although I do not agree with their means, I can take  inspiration from them. I also find the Sith to be aesthetically pleasing. They are beautiful to look at in a sort of HR Giger way.

I have even grown into the idea of the Grey Jedi. I had a hard time with this concept at first but after reading more about them, I can see the appeal to the lifestyle. I am more or less an introvert who takes pleasure in doing my own thing so I can understand a Jedi who follows his own path according to his own code. There is a great satisfaction is being true to yourself. That is not to say that Grey Jedi are all introverts, it is just the way I have come to relate to them in a way I can understand.

Even the Dark Jedi have a sort of appeal I can relate to. I have at different points in my life been told that I was not allowed to do or know something. That never stopped me. A quest for knowledge is a quest I can respect.

All Force users have something I can see as relatable. In a pie chart of qualities, the Jedi just represent a larger part of the graph for me.

[Nhylus]

I have to kind of side with Kitra on this, I didnt see this thread as aggressive as you are making it out be. At first it started as simply defending each side. Trying to separate subjective and objective statements in a civil manner.
I know that I and a few other members in having this discussion was to point out that many of the people here who say they are Sith-sided, would not fit in with the profile Sith as much as they believe or at all.
Most would be more tuned to Dark Jedi at best. I had said multiple times however, that Sith or Jedi code, whatever gets you through the day, go for it. I just feel sympathy for those who feel they must be like a Sith, must adopt such negative ideals and negative traits. I have been there in times of life, and I know what its like. Anywho, this discussion was nearly to its end anyway, as both sides have defended and justified their own reasons. I understand why those who chose Sith did so, but I do not believe that if the Sith were real, that they would be safe or accepted into that order.

[Darth Severus]

I can see how this could cause you a measure of tiredness.

On the same coin, the other side is that we or at least I being one of these who surely irritate the sith community with my pro Jedi flag waving is that to be honest I'm getting overly tired of the superiority complex that in my opinion a lot of the sith proponets our laying on people who side with the Jedi.

While you have brought up the argument of "what good have the Jedi done" before, instead of focusing on this let us note the vast catalog of heinous acts that sith characters have racked up.

This is not a stab at the people who favor sith characters.

No one is saying if you like sith then you are evil.

If you subjugate cultures because you want power, if you murder children because your dark master said to, and if you blow up planets to make a point...well then you would be evil.

The argument of "what good have the Jedi done" just baffles me. 

I guess I could pour over vast amounts of media looking for this evidence you seek, but it seems senseless to me...because they are what they are.

What good do policemen do? Day to day they serve and protect...do you need to see a list of what they did to recognize this?

Yes I know Earth policemen are not Jedi from another Galaxy, but the real world example works for me.

I know you are a rational person so I am not going to insult your intelligence.  If you feel the Jedi are not good guys for whatever reason then that is what you believe.

Uncle Lucas says they are so at least for me, that is enough.

It is all fiction...fantasy...his fiction and fantasy.

Others may have continued and wrote other stories, but all within his sandbox.

If you want to say the Jedi have no proof of being good then that is how it is for you.  I do not understand, but I don't have to.  Your vision and opinions are yours to have and I support you in these.

More power to you my friend.

There is plenty of room for all of us in the Star Wars galaxy...even Jedi who may or may not be good guys.

While I play a Sith in the RP and find their characters to usually be more interesting and better written through out most of the Star Wars universe, I don't support their view or think they are not evil. I think they are, that doesn't make it a fact though. That's one of the things that upsets me is that some many opinions are levied as fact. That the Jedi are this the Sith are that as fact hurts the open discussion that is often found on this thread, and in this forum.

Rel, I ask what have the Jedi done that is good because in my view they are no where near good. They are a in my opinion a sect that held up a corrupt  and unjust republic for years, only looking to keep those in power in power, not caring about the common people and not doing anything to help them. They could have done many wonderful things, but they served as errand boys for the elite. To me that's evil too, whether you kill someone with your blade, or kill them with neglect they are still dead.

Also yes no one on the boards would make it as a Sith, but then no one on the board has the force and no one here was put through combat training from a young age and made to live in a constant state of readiness since before they could walk.

Edit:
But to those saying that the Sith are not a group that would welcome individualist or free spirits, I would agree with that. Until you got to the very top of the Sith ladder you would probally have to be subserviant to someone at all time.

[RogueLeader]

We end up with team Jedi and team Sith. Team Jedi points out how the Sith are evil. They are into slavery, genocide, tyranny, etc. We have to have some mention of Hitler, too, almost like clockwork. Then team Sith accuses the Jedi of being elitists, baby snatchers, false idols, etc. and try to point out that the Sith are just misunderstood and the Jedi are actually the aggressors. Then there is the Anakin debate in which both sides try to use him as an example of how bad the other side is. And it goes back and forth and back and forth.

They're both right. The Sith are evil, but I agree that some of them are misunderstood, and the Jedi are baby snatchers. If I lived in the Star Wars universe i would not want to be either.

[Darth Severus]

They're both right. The Sith are evil, but I agree that some of them are misunderstood, and the Jedi are baby snatchers. If I lived in the Star Wars universe i would not want to be either.

On this we are in total agreement, they both repulse me.

The thing I think people identify with the Sith is, for most of Star Wars world there are only two, if you are one of the two, and if you take power then you will do the right things. Of course how could you not, you're you, and you could never be the evil thing the Sith are described as being. You would be just, you would be fair, you, you would be different.

[chicago.jedi]

They're both right. The Sith are evil, but I agree that some of them are misunderstood, and the Jedi are baby snatchers. If I lived in the Star Wars universe i would not want to be either.

You are correct. I am not saying that the Jedi or Sith are not without their faults. To say one is pure good and the other pure evil is over simplified and as much as I wish it was true, it is not.  Each side has its shortcomings.

If I lived in the Star Wars universe and was a Jedi, I would speak out against the taking of children into the order and urge the council to change that policy. And if this put me in the same category as Qui Gon, so be it.

Likewise, if I were a misunderstood Sith Lord, I would try to spread awareness of the Sith who are misunderstood and urge the Jedi not to judge all by the actions of a few.

But I am not in the Star Wars universe. I am an outsider looking in who has no control over it. So, I pick the side that suits me best... as is. I focus on the good qualities of the side I choose and not the bad qualities of the side I didn’t.

[Nhylus]

You are correct. I am not saying that the Jedi or Sith are not without their faults. To say one is pure good and the other pure evil is over simplified and as much as I wish it was true, it is not.  Each side has its shortcomings.

If I lived in the Star Wars universe and was a Jedi, I would speak out against the taking of children into the order and urge the council to change that policy. And if this put me in the same category as Qui Gon, so be it.

Likewise, if I were a misunderstood Sith Lord, I would try to spread awareness of the Sith who are misunderstood and urge the Jedi not to judge all by the actions of a few.

But I am not in the Star Wars universe. I am an outsider looking in who has no control over it. So, I pick the side that suits me best... as is. I focus on the good qualities of the side I choose and not the bad qualities of the side I didn’t.

Both of your arguments aren't necessarily based on whole truths.
I've tried to clarify the children thing already. But the Jedi do not take children from their parents. The Jedi arrive at the parents home and inform them that their child is gifted in the Force, they then allow the parent to make a decision to let the child grow up as a Jedi or to stay with their parents. It is a voluntary act by the caregivers of the child. By the time the Jedi arrive, the child is so young that they have not yet grown attachment or even understood what parents are. And again, the parents have a choice in the matter. They do not maniacally persuade people to give up their children. They allow the parents to make an informed decision.

As for the sith, again, misunderstood is such a vague term. The Sith were created to destroy and enslave the weak of the Galaxy. I can understand a misunderstood dark jedi or fallen jedi, but there is little room for a Sith Lord to be "misunderstood". The Sith are not victims of anyone but themselves.
I understand the appeal of the Sith. They get what they want, they can feel better than anyone else, and they have power. They have the ability to control and have instant gratification. Their obsession gives them drive in life, gives them basic survival and purpose.

However, it has always warmed my heart to see someone who has fallen to the darkside redeem themselves. Be it book, movie, series, or game. It shows that everyone can be saved.

This discussion and our reasons to being aligned to each side seems more to do with what side of the Force vs which organization. Many of us would not be humble or good enough to be Jedi, and many of us are not Sith material and would be slain for weakness.

[Darth Severus]

Both of your arguments aren't necessarily based on whole truths.
I've tried to clarify the children thing already. But the Jedi do not take children from their parents. The Jedi arrive at the parents home and inform them that their child is gifted in the Force, they then allow the parent to make a decision to let the child grow up as a Jedi or to stay with their parents. It is a voluntary act by the caregivers of the child. By the time the Jedi arrive, the child is so young that they have not yet grown attachment or even understood what parents are. And again, the parents have a choice in the matter. They do not maniacally persuade people to give up their children. They allow the parents to make an informed decision.

As for the sith, again, misunderstood is such a vague term. The Sith were created to destroy and enslave the weak of the Galaxy. I can understand a misunderstood dark jedi or fallen jedi, but there is little room for a Sith Lord to be "misunderstood".
This discussion and our reasons to being aligned to each side seems more to do with what side of the Force vs which organization. Many of us would not be humble or good enough to be Jedi, and many of us are not Sith material and would be slain for weakness.

Misunderstood, to not be understood, its not that vague. Sure you could take it too many different degrees but it isn't that hard of a concept. I must have missed where the Sith whole purpose was to enslave, I thought it was to rule the galaxy, which would be the same of the Republic. The way they choose to rule is different but their intent is to rule.
And yes the parents have a choice, when the all powerful propaganda driven and awe inspiring Jedi show up on you door and ask you to give them your child, (and for a brief moment in time lets consider that it is the child that is being given up, its life, not its parents that is being given away) you obvious tell these glorious defenders of all that is right in the world to go shove it. Its a false choice, a choice that only the strongest of wills have.

[Nhylus]

Misunderstood, to not be understood, its not that vague. Sure you could take it too many different degrees but it isn't that hard of a concept. I must have missed where the Sith whole purpose was to enslave, I thought it was to rule the galaxy, which would be the same of the Republic. The way they choose to rule is different but their intent is to rule.
And yes the parents have a choice, when the all powerful propaganda driven and awe inspiring Jedi show up on you door and ask you to give them your child, (and for a brief moment in time lets consider that it is the child that is being given up, its life, not its parents that is being given away) you obvious tell these glorious defenders of all that is right in the world to go shove it. Its a false choice, a choice that only the strongest of wills have.

Again, there are numerous instances where the Jedi have been denied a force-sensitive child, they respect it and leave. They do not show up saying "GIVE ME YOUR BABY". They tell the parents straight-up, "you're child is force-sensitive, and has potential to become a great Jedi". Thats pretty much it. If you say yes because you are afraid, that is your own fault. It is a real choice.

Imagine the scenario of Galen Marek.
A Sith Lord killed his only family, kidnapped him, and forced him to watch everything he loved crumble before him.
Galen was old enough to understand love and attachment, he was old enough to understand loss, and he was old enough to miss a life he had.

[Master Rel]

I quick thought about the children and Jedi recruitment...Uncle Lucas, bless his jowly fat soul, did not have that many original thoughts or ideas...let us be truthful here...I love him like a distant relative that made movies that I most often loved and never visited during holidays because he is only related to me as much as any other person...he made Star Wars and that is good enough for me...but Star Wars is a collection of proof that there are no original ideas...though I hate that saying.

I suspect with great clarity of confidence that Uncle Lucas adopted the Eastern Asian practice among certain peoples that a child, a golden child (really not a bad movie that had its moments...but I digress) is born and is elevated into a holy position that brings much honor and pride to the families, communities, and visiting peoples...for that child to be lifted up and granted consideration beyond the mundane.

No further will I go down the religion path but the point is this...I see the potential of a child being gifted with connection to the Force and thus being offered a chance to become Jedi, is one that comes with the potential of pride and honor for the family, community, and related peoples...for what is it that we wish for our children...to have more rewarding lives than we had...to be given opportunities that we may not have had...to be more than we are/were...to be all that they can be (I know a cheesy Army slogan, sue me it fits )

So I suspect many parents would welcome their child being invited to join the Jedi Order...but certainly not all would and that is ok...the Force is like Doritos...it will make more