A note on "proper sabers" for "proper forms of combat" - Caine's recommendations

[Caine]

A lot of people ask me: What saber do you recommend for the Forms of Lightsaber Combat. I usually answer that it depends on the user mainly, but if you want some in depth advice, here is what I have learned:

In canon SW mythos, there is supposed to be a saber for every style of Lightsaber Combat, and you can read about it all you want on various website, etc. However, I have found through trial and error that this is nothing more than illustrative hooey.

Let's take Makashi for example. A curved saber of some sort is the supposed "best" weapon for this fencing based style. But let me ask you this: How many fencing foils, sabres, etc. are actually curved? And how many people out there have actually wielded a curved saber? Personally, I have found it rather challenging to use one, and spins are murder because of the hilt's shape. I am not saying you can't master using it, but for the majority of people out there may have a tougher time. I think a lot of it is that people like Dooku's saber, and they want to be an awesome Sith like him and wield a curved weapon.

My advice: Use a simple, lightweight aluminum hilt for those precise strikes...maybe like an Initiate because it's a little shorter with a longer blade. Of course, a Dominix, Liberator or Redemption will work well, too.

Here's one: Djem-So/Shien: Both aggressive forms, and Shien being reverse gripped. However, in a reverse grip style, not EVERY strike and block will be reverse grip as you will need to switch to two hands, back and forth to regular grip, etc. A saber with a good choke point that is easily spun and switched is my recommendation. Perhaps a Shock, Arbitor, Cataylst or Prophecy

For Shii-Cho, which is a basic form with basic strikes and blocks, any Ultrasaber will work fine.

For Soresu and Ataru, I recommend Shock, Cataylst, Prophecy, Liberator or Standard Issue

For Juyo/Vaapad: A Bane is perfect for these. Of course, any other Ultrasaber will work fine, too.

Niman: That's up to you. 

Again, please don't think this is definitive...you may have other opinions as your experience grows, and of course the saber combat forms are subject to interpretation. However, this can hopefully point those newer folks in the right direction.

[ThreadJack]

I never actually thought about which saber to use for different styles. I always just pick out the saber I want most. lol.

[Jammo]

I do notice that I use certain forms better with certain weapons. I have a preferred beat stick for many styles... a custom made one in green that I like best in a single handed style, a modified arbiter that I like to kick form switches with in mid flow (that messes people up sometimes), a big brawler with an extra long blade that I use a two hand power form with, and even certain sabers that I have a short blade in for my off hand when I throw Jar'Kai. My advice is to play around with as many sabers and styles as you can since it gives you different profiles that keep dueling interesting and offer a tactical advantage at the same time.

[Caine]

I do notice that I use certain forms better with certain weapons. I have a preferred beat stick for many styles... a custom made one in green that I like best in a single handed style, a modified arbiter that I like to kick form switches with in mid flow (that messes people up sometimes), a big brawler with an extra long blade that I use a two hand power form with, and even certain sabers that I have a short blade in for my off hand when I throw Jar'Kai. My advice is to play around with as many sabers and styles as you can since it gives you different profiles that keep dueling interesting and offer a tactical advantage at the same time.

I am also a big believer in using a shoto saber in your lead hand for Jar-Kai. It's just a better way to move IMO.

[Jammo]

I do notice that I use certain forms better with certain weapons. I have a preferred beat stick for many styles... a custom made one in green that I like best in a single handed style, a modified arbiter that I like to kick form switches with in mid flow (that messes people up sometimes), a big brawler with an extra long blade that I use a two hand power form with, and even certain sabers that I have a short blade in for my off hand when I throw Jar'Kai. My advice is to play around with as many sabers and styles as you can since it gives you different profiles that keep dueling interesting and offer a tactical advantage at the same time.

I am also a big believer in using a shoto saber in your lead hand for Jar-Kai. It's just a better way to move IMO.

I notice that you control the space better and get jammed less with the shoto in the off hand.

[LordDesann]

Hmmm.....i dont see how the Shock would fit for Djem-so/Shien the hilt seems to small to fit comfortably for one handed grip.
Would leather grips help??

 

[Ultra]

the hilt seems to small to fit comfortably for one handed grip.

eh?

[Caine]

Hmmm.....i dont see how the Shock would fit for Djem-so/Shien the hilt seems to small to fit comfortably for one handed grip.
Would leather grips help??

 

Once again...subject to interpretation...  

And the Shock isn't small. It's an average sized hilt.

[screenaholic]

Actually, Shien isn't reverse grip. Shien is using your saber to reflect blaster bolts back at specific targets. My bet on why you think it is reverse grip is the picture of Starkiller on Wookiepedia's Form V page, where it states he uses Shien. You can use reverse grip in any form.

[Caine]

Actually, Shien isn't reverse grip. Shien is using your saber to reflect blaster bolts back at specific targets. My bet on why you think it is reverse grip is the picture of Starkiller on Wookiepedia's Form V page, where it states he uses Shien. You can use reverse grip in any form.

Although it's true that you can use reverse grip in any form, Shien (canon-wise) is the most prolific reverse grip form.

Quote from Wookiepedia entry

"Additionally, there was an ancient Sith variant of this classic lightsaber form called Sith Shien. Sith Shien was known to focus on quick and aggressive attacks against the user's opponent. Shien practitioners were known to favor, or at least regularly utilize, reversed grips."

More info here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_V:_Shien_/_Djem_So

[JdiKnhtJMH]

I was going to add my own thoughts on this into the thread I begun for the saber forms, but since Elder Caine has been good enough to begin a thread for discussion of which blades are most suited to which styles, I think I will offer my own humble suggestions here. As has been said, the user chooses the lightsaber and the form, or the Force does. Simply picking up a lightsaber of a certain variety will not give you abilities in the form the weapon might be suited for. Through careful practice and experimentation, customization, you can find a lightsaber that suits your chosen form.

Form 1: An initiate would be perfect for this style as it's a basic, no frills saber with a short blade that will provide less force, and therefore less danger of damaging others or objects. The saber of one just learning lightsaber combat should be a fairly standard one, because in this way they can get an idea for how to handle most lightsabers, while also learning through experience what improvements they might prefer.

Form 2: The old Dark Apprentice, modified with parts to increase the weight on the end of the pommel and thus attain balance, would be great for this form. A curved hilt is preferable for Makashi for a number of reasons. Firstly, the curved hilt is difficult to use two handed, which is something that any Makashi Master will tell you is a crutch. Makashi is a single handed style. The curved hilt allows for greater blade control and different angles of attack, particularly the stabbing motions that are a staple of Makashi's offense are made easier to direct. Failing that, the balance of a liberator is supposed to be quite good.

Form 3: I would reccomend a weapon that is either balanced or with its balance towards the hilt. I dont know of many unaltered ultrasabers that fit this profile. Maybe a Bane or a Arbiter. The wider guard on the Bane would help for Soresu. But, obviously, as an example, Obi Wan Kenobi's weapon is good, and the Force FX version has the proper balance. A rubber or leather grip is also useful to help cushion some of the vibrations coming down the blade from the blocks inherent to this form.

Form 4: Ataru users need a comfortable, easily manipulated hilt. A shorter hilt with a good rubber or leather grip is helpful. The weapon must become an extension of the body to aid in balance, and to have the body's motion employed in strikes more than any other form. An initiate hilt would do well here though Ataru requires a full length, if light weight, weapon. A plastic hilt might even be useful for this form due to its light weight.

Form 5: Djem So requires a blade with a foreward balance, that is weighted towards the blade in order to add force to the attack. A single piece metal saber cover is preferable as well as a heavy emitter shroud. Beveled shrouds are used as well for differentiating a blade and a flat, as though the weapon were a heavy single edge sword with one side as the blade and one side used to block. The saber should have ridged grips to ensure a good hold. Djem So style sabers are often not as streamlined as their counterparts, examples being Anakin, Ahsoka and Vaders weapons. I would reccomend the prophecy, shock or a customized standard issue. In these models the foreward balance is a plus.

Form 6: With Niman I would recommend just using an aeon or a dominix, a simple, unassuming, basic weapon that mirrors the basic combat prowess of Niman. This could be paired with a short blade initiate in the off hand for Jar'Kai. Basic weapons make this form's simplicity into a strength via adaptability and ease.

Form 7: This one is difficult as I have of course not mastered form 7 (hardly anyone has!) So all I can do is just to look at the two practicioners of juyo/vaapad, I think that a weapon that allows powerful attacks (Forward balance) similar to Djem So, but with a more comfortable grip is the result of that study. Neither Maul nor Mace had much of a guard on their saber, or a beveled emitter. A very well ridged grip is essential though so the blade doesnt fly loose in the furious motions of the style. I'd reccomend maybe a Bane, a Shock or a Redemption.

[Caine]

Nice post, JdiKnhtJMH! It's always nice to hear another person's take on things. 

[ThreadJack]

I'm of the school of, just pick a saber that you like. If you like the way it looks and it feels comfortable in your hands that's all that matters. With enough practice you can make it work for which ever form you want. The only exception might be Makashi with a saber staff.

[thejedimasternick]

I would like to see more of a staff emphasis on VII. It is more aggressive, and I think Maul's use of the form is a pretty good interpretation of the movements and emotion you need to have.

[JdiKnhtJMH]

Many thanks Caine, I havent near the martial experience you have, but I usually manage to figure out the basic matters of the styles. I'd love to hear your critique of my lightsaber form instructions.

Master Nick - For form 7, I think a saber staff would be useful, but then the same could be said for any form.  The Jedi among us are of course not supposed to use those, so I generally don't include saber staffs in my reccomendations. That said, a staff would probably work well in Ataru and Juyo both.