Form IV: Ataru

[Master VorNach]

Ready for a djem so thread!!

In progress:
http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=6842.0

[Xanedan]

Awesome, looking forward to it.

[Veldryne]

The ataru thread has been quiet as of late, so i figured I would pipe up. I just recently decided to start delving into Ataru, using master nonymous' shii cho as a base.

I see a lot of the episode 1 ataru, as being a more full body version of shii cho, where rather than the standard strikes, you modify them by changing footwork, speed, power and the momentum of your body to provide variable attack planes, still making use of the wide sweeping strikes. Master Nero has been wanting to work on Ataru as well, so via videos and a lot of messaging back and fourth we plan to start fleshing out the form further, taking multiple videos of individual techniques untill we settle on how we really want to have it done, and only then posting the final versions.

With permission, we would like to format the videos similar to Master Nonymous' Terra Prime videos, short 4-10 min video lessons. I am by no means a master, but I have some martial arts backround in shotokhan and aikido from some years back, and i have been putting in anywhere from 6-10 hours of practice in per week for a while now. (except with the crazy rain we have had lately in my hometown.



To get everyone a quick rundown on what we are going to be referencing as a base, Im going to past short form notes here, that i have taken from three sources. The discourse on lightsaber combat by Ulios, the wookiepedia entry on ataru, the jediholo.net entry on the form posted earlier in this thread, and a brief rundown of concepts i think work, that have been mentioned in comments on this thread by various members.



"The Ataru form of combat is agressive, but focused. You must never rely solely on the weapon, bur rather embrace the idea that your whole body is the weapon. use the force to spin, jump, to overpower your foe" - Luke Skywalker
 
For the notes, I have taken them from three primary documents. The first being "Seven Forms of Lightsaber Combat: A Discourse" by Craig Paige, formerly of the group known as New York Jedi.
 
The second, being the wikipedia entry on Ataru. And the third being the JediHolo.net entry on form IV found here: http://www.jediholo.net/archives/documents/5341-2/
 
 
 
Seven Forms of Lightsaber Combat: A Discourse
-Developed for times when violence was neccisary, some time after the development of Form III Soresu
-helped combat new threats like the rising prevalance of the mandalorians
-second most kinetically active form
-focus is on speed, acrobatics and power
-wide, fast attacks from all angles
-flowing combinations
-offensive form of soresu, non linear mindset, tactical acumen
-complete and total use of the body in attack
-barrage of energy
-single target form, well suited to open spaces
-effictively able to attack from any angle
-fast and adaptable reactions
-weak vs blasters
-hampered in close quarters
-easily fatigued
-end conflict by striking a mark of contact early, before an enemy can accurately respond
-effectively a hard form of martial arts
-practitioners are likened to dancing tornados
 
Wookipedia entry on Form IV Ataru
-leaping strikes for attack and defense
-quick spinning strikes, saber, whole body, or both
 
JediHolo.net
-greater sequences to open up an enemie's defenses
-based on the notion that few duelists have perfect defenses, so one side will always be open
-the practitioner should always be in motion
-adapt, flow with the motions of battle
-controlled, precise footwork
-not directly confrontational
-covers weaknes of physical ability by means of agility and body usage
-increases range of attacks through body mechanics
-multi-layered strategies to confuse and mislead opponents
-avoid or redirect attacks
-not designed to counter head on attacks of greater intensity
-frustrate and irritate opponents, opening up psychological weaknesses
-quick to dismiss innefeective strategies and methods in a fight, and alter their plans on the fly
 
 
 
Saberforum.com Form IV Ataru Thread
-constant movement and continual attacks
-kicks, foot stomps, leg sweeps
-too much focus on cartwheels, jumps and flips (no force powers makes this diffucult to truly capture form wise, should be left out to make the form easier to teach to new practitioners)***
-solid footing and balance more important than jumping attacks***
-footwork used for defense instead of bladework, conservation of energy
-evasion is the goal defensively
-redirection of body momemntum to rebound into the next strike
-push into the ground, focus the force of the blow into the oppenent by using mass and inertia
-course changing, footfall, controlling the stride, all should be a focus
-power speed and agility at the cost of defensive recovery, hence evasion being a focus
 
***personal notes

[Darth Nonymous]

I am excited to see where this takes you. You have a lot of information to work with.

I am honored you find our Shii-Cho suitable to build upon. That is my goal with this whole endeavor. Thank you.

Good luck.

If you need any help or input, let me know.

[Veldryne]

Some of you may have seen it in the videos thread, but here it is again, since it pertains to the topic.

My first attempt to work some ataru influences into my freeform.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2k4XHlrlXM" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2k4XHlrlXM</a>

And some comments already from masters Nero and Nonymous on it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Master Nonymous Very nice. The strikes look clean and precise. I was expecting to see more 360 spinning strikes and body involvement for Ataru. But the Sii-Cho Footwork and strikes are definitely coming along nicely.

Veldryne yeah im still trying to get there, i worked in a few more spins, going to attempt to work on more jumping as well like you had me working on, my left hip was feeling really odd last night, still is this morning, so i didnt go too crazy

Master Nonymous Sure, I understand. You don't have to do it all,if the jumping is bothering you right now, focus on the 360 strikes with your feet on the ground. those are the most useful anyway.

But It really does look good. Especially the Shii-Cho aspects. The direct footwork, good root and base, and clean lines. I think if you go from the big chops to the minor orbits, try using major orbit as the beginning. So each little circle is at the end of a larger arc. That should reveal some places where you can insert Ataru type techniques fluidly.

Also, if you use more of this reserved and direct action in sparring, you will be much harder to handle.

Veldryne Thanks! I really appreciate the comments on the shii cho. Im going to have to watch the major and minor orbits video again, and work on that. Im really trying to pay attention to my footwork, its the keeping stable coming out of the spins that I think is holding me back on them. Need to work on that

Master Nonymous We have footwork drills for that. unfortunately, video productions on hold for camp, so it will be a few weeks. I'll try to find some other videos in the meantime.


Veldryne Thanks! though i suppose if my body is wanting to go that way, heading to the side instead of keeping going strait into the spin, learning to use that and turning it into an attack, pretty much fits with the mentality of the form im going for.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Master Nero Dude I love it. You make those spins nice and smooth, they fit in perfectly. Plus it's neat to see your Soresu roots being pushed towards Ataru... very interesting.

Veldryne Yeah my balance looks pretty stable on the spins but I still hesitate going into them. I need to let my body carry me more, driving the next attacks.

Master Nero Yeah that's hard. I've never gotten 100% into spins myself, it's just not a natural movement for me. You definitely look like you're moving in the right direction there though.

[Master Nero Attoru]

You're really getting that one important concept down - continuity.  I like how the attacks flow into one another.  In something like Soresu, this concept allows you to form an impenetrable defense, but in Ataru it's perfect for just the opposite - a continuous, overwhelming offense.  Very good!

[Darth Nonymous]

You're really getting that one important concept down - continuity.  I like how the attacks flow into one another.  In something like Soresu, this concept allows you to form an impenetrable defense, but in Ataru it's perfect for just the opposite - a continuous, overwhelming offense.  Very good!

This is correct. using the principles of the circle from Soresu, in our style at least, you follow through and enlarge your arc to intersect with the target. the spin is just a way to let your body commit and be able to recover and counterattack with one fluid motion. The draw back to Ataru is that it's techniques leave you exposed and over committed, so you best attack and get out quick or keep the pressure on so they do not have time to recover. Either method require you to flow uninterrupted into your next technique, be it evasion or attack.

[Veldryne]

Ill try to keep that in mind, if the weather stops being $^$^#&&*#%)((%#)& here, Ill hopefully get some time outside for some solo practice with some actual space.

[Solinus]

Very nice moves! I think I am learning because I can see and point out Shii-Cho moves, I can see some Soresu, and the Ataru as well.

The one thing I wish I could see is your footwork. You seemed to just flow on your feet. I couldn't see you bouncing and your body appeared to be light instead of heavy and cumbersome.

Very good job!

[Veldryne]

I think the plan is to do some daylight videos soon. I just try to flow rather than step lol. I'm not sure how or where my footwork comes from, it's just...there.

I'll see about getting you a daylight vid this weekend and get the holocam droid to focus on my feet!

[DarkestSky]

I have to say, I am a little confused about a lot of these. I am trying to figure out what form I fit best. In my SCA days (limited..lol) I always used two blades and was always on the attack, overwhelming my opponents with speed and relentlessness, constantly putting pressure on them. My defense was my offense. From the forms that I have read about, Ataru seems best fitting however I am far from acrobatic.  Is this similiar to Ataru or is there something that fits this better?

Hmm..

I guess in the end it really doesn't matter because in saber combat (probably with some SCA people again...) am just going to use the same form whether it is star wars 'recognized' form or not.

[Darth Nonymous]

I have to say, I am a little confused about a lot of these. I am trying to figure out what form I fit best. In my SCA days (limited..lol) I always used two blades and was always on the attack, overwhelming my opponents with speed and relentlessness, constantly putting pressure on them. My defense was my offense. From the forms that I have read about, Ataru seems best fitting however I am far from acrobatic.  Is this similiar to Ataru or is there something that fits this better?

We talk about it earlier in the thread. Here is  my explanation of it.

Back on the topic of Ataru: What I found most interesting is the concept of "Su Ma" in Yoda's style. These three movements, while corresponding to three demential axis, also corresponds to the three planes of movement in the body.

Sagital plane: ton su ma
Frontal plane: en su ma
Transverse: jung su ma

Not only does it relate to the acrobatics, bit also the stabilization patterns in the body while doing work (in this case fighting with a weapon). While the acrobatics will be obvious, the power created by those stability patterns will not. I think that's as good an apology for the differences between Yoda's Ataru and Qui Gong jinn's performance.

One being the obvious manifestation, Yoda's small size would have a far greater global effect on his body being able to send it flying and turing with out the ground to help him. Forget the force assist for a second, conventional physics would suggest this would be the effect and a very good way to maximize the advantages of small size with as true full body power behind it (like falling on your keys).

The other being the more subtle yet still devastating manifestation of a large humanoid who instead of housing that power into leaving the ground himself, but rather into each swing of the saber (like thinking there is one more step at the bottom of the staircase ) and the ability to essentially rebound the force of the clash back to the opponent.

[DarkestSky]

Ah! Makes much more sense.  Using fluid momentum. Yes, it seems that the way that I use to swing and "fight" in SCA  does fit Ataru best then.