Stage Combat Resources?

[Tekedo]

Hey everyone,

My friend and I just ordered 2 ultrasabers (The Aeon and the Dominix V2, (Both with UltraEdge heavy grade) keeping it cheap and alright quality for now) for a pretty specific reason. Both of us are stage actors, and want to really be able to put on a show. Between us we have a number of stage an commercial productions that we have participated in, and want to branch out to the world of Star Wars stage combat. The problem I have found is the sheer lack of free information on how to really go about this. We both understand actual stage combat, as well as basic sword forms (Not really the VII Jedi forms) and know we have the skill to do this, but it is more HOW we go about making it look authentic, without being too robotic or hard technical. We do not have any Jedi Training resources local to us, and I personally have been having a hard time watching the videos on how all this works. (I have a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, so I understand the martial aspects, but when it comes to watching and reading, it all just seems to get lost)

I suppose the biggest question is how strong should we stay to the VII forms? I have seen light saber combat that looks nothing like light saber combat, and that is most definitely not what we want to accomplish. I have watched some of Terra Prime's videos, but what other recourses are out there for the stage (or in most cases street) performer looking to create a compelling and exciting combat, short of just choreographing some cool looking moves? 

As a side note, once this does take off, hopefully my study in video production will help produce some good quality videos for you all.

Thanks so much, and I have been loving this community,
-Tek

[Veldryne]

Oddly enough, I dont think there is much on how to do the stage combat side of it. Everyone here tends to focus on the practical, and working on our own interpretations of the seven forms.

If you find anything useful at all, by all means post it on here.

[Master Bluespike74]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkqR0ObaJvk" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkqR0ObaJvk</a>

This is a start.  I hope it helps.

[Tekedo]

The kind of thing we would be more leaning towards would be sort of "Flash Mob" style combat on a street level, kind of like Forceclash (But not as publicized)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcUdM98nbAs" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcUdM98nbAs</a>

or this video I found on the videos subforum.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGmD3YEwB3c" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGmD3YEwB3c</a>

I have also seen a fair bit of NYJedi performances on youtube which give me some ideas.

[Master Uilos]

Some advice, but first a preface:

I come from the "Make it look good, but believable" style of stage combat. Focus on movements and a progression in the combat that makes sense. I know that some don't see the connection between Stage Combat and Sparring, but it is there.

Stage combat is an exaggeration of actual combat, the swings and hits are clearer and cleaner than an actual fight. Think of watching the fight in Rocky and then an actual boxing match, it's two completely different ways. Also keep in mind that in an actual fight, it's just you and your opponent. In Stage Combat, you have one element you Need to take account of: The Audience. Always be aware of them in your positions, always be aware that it may look like a good fight to you, but it's them the fight is for. Allow them to see the fight, allow them to abs

A fight is generally telling a story, what is the reason behind it, what is the motivation for the characters (not the performers, the characters. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE) What is the underlying conflict that binds this fight together, what are the solutions, hindrances, loopholes and pitfalls?

As for the Seven Forms, my paper (which is stickied on this section) is meant for Stage Combat, at least to get the mindset of the forms down. Look at that for some info. Remember: The Forms are AN IDEA, so long as you keep to the spirit of the Forms, it should translate (should being the operative word there)

This is a cursory explanation, I can help if you have any specific questions.

[Tekedo]

Thanks Uilos,

I have read most of your paper, and really need to read it a few more times.

As both my friend and I are performers, and sparing partners, a lot of the combat will hopefully fall into play with enough practice. I would be playing as a Jedi, my friend a Sith. I know I want some amount of dialogue, and story to this, it is just a matter of writing it, and finding places that will let us perform. The one thing I most definitely DON'T want is one person in combat dieing. I have seen this done well, but I feel like it is pushing it a bit far with how light sabers really are, and how they supposed to be (Just like in your paper, being able to fake a lost limb or a cut weapon is nothing short of Lucas himself, or a lot of stage rigging I have no access to.)  The story itself is some what important to me, but I also understand how to not bore the audience with an hour of dialogue before a duel. Also, I think that unless done right, talking during a duel (Like when sabers are locked, with both opponents right there) is really cheesy and should be avoided. The important thing for this is first, safety (Both performers AND the audience), second is performance and entertainment value, and then form.

I do plan on having a few routines set and practiced, so as to be able to shift it up a bit when doing different performances at different times or places.

The bad thing about my area (Frederick MD) is that I can't find anything on laws about any type of street performing anywhere. (And google can find anything!) so the logistics side of it is strenuous.

[Master Uilos]

Thanks Uilos,

I have read most of your paper, and really need to read it a few more times.

As both my friend and I are performers, and sparing partners, a lot of the combat will hopefully fall into play with enough practice. I would be playing as a Jedi, my friend a Sith. I know I want some amount of dialogue, and story to this, it is just a matter of writing it, and finding places that will let us perform. The one thing I most definitely DON'T want is one person in combat dieing. I have seen this done well, but I feel like it is pushing it a bit far with how light sabers really are, and how they supposed to be (Just like in your paper, being able to fake a lost limb or a cut weapon is nothing short of Lucas himself, or a lot of stage rigging I have no access to.)  The story itself is some what important to me, but I also understand how to not bore the audience with an hour of dialogue before a duel. Also, I think that unless done right, talking during a duel (Like when sabers are locked, with both opponents right there) is really cheesy and should be avoided. The important thing for this is first, safety (Both performers AND the audience), second is performance and entertainment value, and then form.

I do plan on having a few routines set and practiced, so as to be able to shift it up a bit when doing different performances at different times or places.

The bad thing about my area (Frederick MD) is that I can't find anything on laws about any type of street performing anywhere. (And google can find anything!) so the logistics side of it is strenuous.

First thing then is to contact the city and ask them what the laws are for street performances. In new york, we're a little freer in this in that most of the cops in midtown manhattan actually KNOW the street performance laws (way more buskers than tourists some days).

A thing on dialogue. Most audiences, especially in public places where sound gets drowned out, is not going to go over well. If you have your fight in a controlled area, an audience that is actively listening to you (convention, party, vicitms you've chained to their seats...or so I've heard *cough*) then use dialogue. What is important is that you and your partner know the story, and that it translates in some ways to your fight. Hell, Pantomiming says more than dialogue in times like this. Fight choreography is about watching body movements, the audience will be watching your mannerisms closer than your words, and unless you've got them HOOKED, talking may actually detract from their interest.

[Stiletto]

The bad thing about my area (Frederick MD)

I was waiting to hear where you were. I'm sure both MD Jidai / C.L.A.N.S of the Revolution in Columbia, MD and a few of the members of Capital City Jedi Knights (Harrisburg, PA) who live in York, PA would be happy to give you a little help, if you're forming a group in your area. Even if it's just going to be you and a fight partner, there _are_ resources.

[Tekedo]

A thing on dialogue. Most audiences, especially in public places where sound gets drowned out, is not going to go over well. If you have your fight in a controlled area, an audience that is actively listening to you (convention, party, victims you've chained to their seats...or so I've heard *cough*) then use dialogue. What is important is that you and your partner know the story, and that it translates in some ways to your fight. Hell, Pantomiming says more than dialogue in times like this. Fight choreography is about watching body movements, the audience will be watching your mannerisms closer than your words, and unless you've got them HOOKED, talking may actually detract from their interest.

That is very helpful, and makes a hell of a lot of sense. I was thinking about crowd size, and thinking that none would be large enough to drown out dialogue, but then if they are smaller, they won't really care ether. So for now, this saves a lot of time. We will still be working on story and what not for each different encounter. Having been around these kinds of things on the streets, how often to they occur, (Like schedueling, popular times of day, more then one performance a day, once a month, etc) I know this will be determined by the area and the act anyway, but I would like maybe get a benchmark for how these things would work.

Stiletto, I have looked into them a little, but never thought of contacting them for advice about this. That will help enormously. I hope that eventually there could be a larger group of actors up here, but because I'm not a martial expert by any means, it wouldn't be what most clubs seem to be. (At least from what I've seen here)

Thanks guys, I will be contacting many people today!

[Master Uilos]

That is very helpful, and makes a hell of a lot of sense. I was thinking about crowd size, and thinking that none would be large enough to drown out dialogue, but then if they are smaller, they won't really care ether. So for now, this saves a lot of time. We will still be working on story and what not for each different encounter. Having been around these kinds of things on the streets, how often to they occur, (Like schedueling, popular times of day, more then one performance a day, once a month, etc) I know this will be determined by the area and the act anyway, but I would like maybe get a benchmark for how these things would work.

Stiletto, I have looked into them a little, but never thought of contacting them for advice about this. That will help enormously. I hope that eventually there could be a larger group of actors up here, but because I'm not a martial expert by any means, it wouldn't be what most clubs seem to be. (At least from what I've seen here)

Thanks guys, I will be contacting many people today!

Remember: I'm referring to dialogue. Don't just abandon the story, there are other ways of telling it. So long as you and your partner know the story, and translate that into your actions, your audience will get it, or something close to it

[Solinus]

Take a look at what the NY Jedi and associated groups do. I have seen some of their stuff and it appears to be pretty cool. I believe they are pure stage combat.

[Stiletto]

Stiletto, I have looked into them a little, but never thought of contacting them for advice about this. That will help enormously. I hope that eventually there could be a larger group of actors up here, but because I'm not a martial expert by any means, it wouldn't be what most clubs seem to be. (At least from what I've seen here)

Speaking from experience, I can guarantee that the Harrisburg PA folks are at least 80-90% not martial artists (at time of writing), and their primary objective is being a non-profit group specializing in performing stage combat choreography with light sabers at conventions, charity events, and stage performances, not a group of martial artists. (I'd be willing to bet that you're more of a martial expert than most of them to be honest, judging from what you've said). I'm sure you'd find them to be like-minded.

As for the Columbia MD group, you are right in that they are more martial artists that break out the sabers, but they still do some awesome choreo.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL-Dh9TPA0o" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL-Dh9TPA0o</a>

Also, in the interactions I've had with them, they've been _amazingly_ helpful and always willing to teach as well as learn.

In my experience, the martial artists are often wanting to make their choreographed fights look more cinematic, and the choreographer performers wanting to make their fights look more real by learning martial arts, so there's a fair amount of crossover, which is why I snoop around on these forums as well as choreography performer forums like SaberWars (whose discussion seems rather dead these days, but there's some decent archived conversations )

[Master Uilos]

Take a look at what the NY Jedi and associated groups do. I have seen some of their stuff and it appears to be pretty cool. I believe they are pure stage combat.

Yo

[Tekedo]

I don't plan on getting rid of the story at all. We are both actors, we can figure something out. And Practice Practice Practice.