Saber Forum

Official sources call Kylo's sidebars 'vents'. Unofficial conversation says the sidebars can be used for various dueling techniques. Do official sources have Kylo using the sidebars as short saber blades? What I mean is, do they have their own magnetic field to behave as a 'solid' blade like the main blade does, or are they just hot? I see Kylo burns Rey with the vent, but would the vents engage a saber's blade or just pass through?

(http://images-cdn.moviepilot.com/images/c_scale,h_820,w_1720/t_mp_quality/ofulkj3iz0u55qbjy1jd/star-wars-7-and-5-things-i-learned-from-buying-kylo-ren-s-toy-lightsaber-690815.jpg)

Perhaps I shouldn't have called this 'Saber Venting'. People will think it's complaining about sabers. Curse my enjoyment of double meanings.  :'(

The 'vents' on the saber, I think, would actually engage another blade and could possibly be used to parry.  Perhaps the earliest ones weren't able to, but then someone saw potential there and said you know...

In the scene where Kylo Ren burns Rey, it looks like it actually stabs into her shoulder. Another reason to believe they would be useful in other ways.

He didn't burn Rey...he burned Finn

Indeed.

Whether he actually stabbed Finn with it or just burned him, it looked like it hurt like hell.

It looked like how a blow torch would act.  Not really a stab or a slice..but basically melting the flesh away.  Real life it would probably only hurt immensely for a few seconds until shock set it.  But the wound would be horrific....and the smell.

I guess this officially settles it. It has been too many days since the last time I watched this movie.

The end point is that the little 'vents' coming out of the sides appear to be made of the same stuff the main blade is. And should function in the same manner. If not, it's a stylistic thing that then becomes a complete waste of space.

Disney states repeatedly, it's a vent for excess energy of the cracked crystal. From what I've seen, my question has not been officially addressed.

(http://i.stack.imgur.com/RzjVa.jpg)
If you can't see it resized on the forum... http://i.stack.imgur.com/RzjVa.jpg

It's not the plasma that makes it behave like a 'solid' blade, but the magnetic field containing the plasma. Logically, a vent doesn't have a magnetic field to recycle the plasma the same way a non vented blade does. Recycling the energy would just keep the energy in excess. But, as it's fiction, they can do as they please. I see no explicit use of it that demonstrates it is a short blade. Perhaps the energy is too much for one blade, so more blades distribute energy. However, a 'vent' implies a different function than another blade. It's also stated the timing is different. The label of 'quillon' fits the appearance, but doesn't address what I'm wanting to know. It is stated that the metal crossguard vent shrouds protect the hand from the vent. Many have pointed out that these shrouds could still be cut. If they were, the vent could either explode or vent unguided and burn the user. Many others are assuming the appearance makes it a blade. But, I don't see a blade. I see energy forced out of a tube that burns for several inches.

(http://i.stack.imgur.com/NZt3u.jpg)

I'll just wait until something official confirms people's assumptions that the quillon protects the hands and could be used as a 'solid' blade, adding the possible combat techniques many expect without seeing Kylo utilize.

That poster is probably the closest you're going to get to something "official" on the subject.

It really seems that the excess energy is vented out of tubes on the side that would need to be resistant to lightsaber plasma energies in order to protect the hands. But, no magnetic energy would be involved, so the vented energy would not parry as if solid against another saber blade. The vent tubes themselves might as saber resistant materials, but not the side bar energy.

The quillons just make a different look and the cracked crystal is a parallel of Kylo's volatile nature. It makes more sense that he didn't utilize them in any great technique, because they don't add much function other than shoulder burning, which could as easily burn him. I've been practicing with one, and it's just a minor hindrance to free movement.

If you have any training in European Longsword it's not hard to not hit yourself with the quillions.  The issue so many were having was that Lightsabers have always been used like Katana or Classical Fencing (with Wushu thrown in when Ray came into it) and people (who had no HEMA experience) were just thrown for a loop.  Kylo more than once went into Longsword techniques, mind you not 100% but close enough.  Here's what I hope to find out.  It's been establish both in the TFA Visual Dictionary and Rebels the crosshilt is an ancient design.  The Vents bleed off the excess energy from the cracked Kyber Crystal, so was it a design of Necessity or aesthetics.  Real life weapons usually had a bit of both in their development.

There it is...

-1 Darth Tepes

In response to the OP,

Champagne was an accident, but it didn't stop people from drinking it or recreating it.

What I'd like to know (before I truly gripe about it), do the guards actually have emitters or are they pure vented energy. If they in fact have the field emitters to contain the energy in a blade form, well done concept-thinker-people. If it was just something that wasn't fully thought through, then, yet again, boo to Disney/Abrams.

It would make sense though, that in order to keep from rapidly depleting the sabers energy that these vents would need field emitters to recycle the diverted energy. So then the need to compensate for the defective crystal then results in a new functionality. I'm beginning to like this saber more. ;)

I just noticed this... but in that poster zoom in on the vented energy... It is officially labeled as 'Quillon Plasma Blade' SO, if the poster was something produced by Disney and not fan created then there's the answer.



Also, this^^ otherwise the vented energy would extend out indefinitely and ultimately make the main blade ineffectual.

Considering that they are just vents, I don't think the energy would have gone out indefinitely but rather dissipated at a distance similar to the quillion. Also keep in mind that Ren's crystal is of inferior quality (cracked) which A) necessitates the vents and B) results in it's unstable lightning-like appearance. A good crystal would produce a more laser like beam that possible could go on in perpetuity without the field, but the power cell would rapidly drain.

The emitted fields on all 3 blades prevent this...

(http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Charge+break_8ece56_5537855.jpg)

Have you ever wondered why we never see a Jedi wall hugging?

If the energy recycles, how is it vented? If it's vented, how is it recycled? I really read it as excess energy the crystal can't handle. It seems like it would be plasma, but no field. The field makes the blades impact. The plasma burns. I don't think it was fully thought through. I think it's just cracked, like Kylo's mind.

<sighs> According to my OC research, assembling a saber was something only a Force sensitive could do. The crystals had to be perfectly aligned, otherwise the beam would not be focused through the emitter, and the saber would explode. This was the case even for sabers using good natural crystals from Illum. As has already been accepted cracked nature of Ren's crystal, the vents prevent the misdirected energy from destroying the hilt. Think of them as pressure release valves. They relieve just enough excess for the device to function.

The "plasma" is generated by the crystal. The field is generated by the emitter. The field deflects energy. That's why saber blades don't pass through one another or force fields and deflect blaster bolts and lightning, but do pass through pretty much anything else. The way I figure it, a physical object breaks the path of the field, allowing the plasma to burn whatever it contacts.

(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/b/ba/Jedi_cutting_door.png/revision/latest?cb=20130120032701)

Once the obstruction to the field has been melted/burned/destroyed the field reestablishes the blade nigh light speed. According to Wookieepedia saber blades do not emit heat. But as shown, they can melt and cauterize. This is the best explanation I have. Hope it works for you.

I've already read that and more. I wanted an official source, if anyone knew of one, that would answer if there is or is not an emitter/field on the vents/quillons. If there isn't a source, that's fine. It's just a discussion. I'm not jumping to the same conclusions others might, nor am I attacking anyone.

If you're frustrated, simply walk away from the discussion.

What I read said the energy is recycled through the crystal. I've already suggested that 3 blades might disperse energy, but the recycling won't really vent much. Disney is arranging this as a vent, not just another blade. Disney-canon is not the first to have extra blades, but they are doing it in a different way and for a different reason than legend-canon. I started with a curiosity of which way they were going. We've each had our way of looking at what information we have.

I'm just throwing this out there, as I have very limited knowledge of such things, but does the fact that the vents appear stressed due to heat make any difference?

Good point. I'd interpret that as meaning there isn't a field there. The shrouds keep the energy away from the hands, as the quillons and vents are hot, unlike the blade, which sources say would be contained in a field and not hot until pushed into something.

Cool. I was watching for that reply. :)

Or it is unstable, like the blade, that lets off some of its energy.

The system is unstable due to the cracked crystal. It's stated that's the purpose of the vents. If the emitter fields themselves are unstable, even on the main blade, the blade length may change, not just the beam flux we see. The quillons are vents for the unstable energy of the blade. If the emitter field is failing, I suppose Kylo's blade could be letting off heat, unlike others. If that's the case, that's not just a damaged crystal requiring vents and an ancient design. That's just a failure on Kylo's part.

Failure at his level of training is entirely possible.  Just not a total failure, or a failure that turned into an opportunity.

Here is my theory.  We know the design is ancient and comes from the Scourge of Malachor.  So, sometime in Kylo's training he was on Malachor, maybe he and Luke went there or that is where Snoke is.  Canon wise we know the early Saber's were flat blades (DarkSaber) and at some point the Force Users moved on to beam-like blades.  We got to see a cross hilt in Rebels.  I think when the Lightsaber was being developed the process was (of course) imperfect and perhaps resulted in the Jedi/Sith cracking the crystals which necessitated the vents.  Now eventually they refined their technique of course and we get the classic Lightsaber design.  So, Kylo may have done the same thing, perhaps Luke never taught him to make a Lightsaber (yet) or all Kylo had was a cracked Crystal and had to use the cross design. 

If I were frustrated, I wouldn't have responded. The merely denoted that I was preparing for a somewhat lengthy explanation. I love talking turkey about the principles behind sci-fi science.



Not necessarily. Malachor was a Sith site. The Jedi sabers were brought by their owners from elsewhere. NTM, the sabers being referenced from the S2 finale of SWR did not have unstable blades. Also, that abomination that you referenced is the only flat blade ever run across. (Sorry for the mild vent.) A flat blade would actually require advanced technology in order to shape the light.

I'd like to know, if Ben was being trained by Luke, and Luke knows how to make a real lightsaber, then why does Ren's look like it was made by a half-retarded initiate?

(http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/tumblr_nmx0nq2UNm1s1xa0lo8_1280.jpg)(http://www.entertainmentearth.com/images/AUTOIMAGES/UC770011lg.jpg)

Don't get me wrong. I am legitimately trying to like this saber. But I refuse to choke down the "canon" just cuz Disney said it is this way.

Part of me wonders if we will even see this saber in future movies. It was destroyed at the end of Ep. 7. So unless he salvaged the crystal from it or got another cracked crystal then there would be no need for the vents.

I wondered why he was using a cracked crystal. If it was all available or he broke it. I also considered that if it is Vader's old saber, the crystal may have been broken before Kylo got it. He wants Anakin's saber, because he believes it will give him some stronger connection to his grandfather. He knows his cracked crystal is a problem, so he wants the other crystal that belonged to Anakin/Vader. In D-canon Aftermath Life Debt, Vader's saber is revealed to still exist. This could mean the cracked crystal in Kylo's 'ancient design' is Vader's. Though, there's nothing confirming that. Only that both Anakin's saber survived, and Kylo want's Anakin's saber.

It was never confirmed as Vader's Saber..just a Red Bladed Saber..both Aftermath books have seen the Vader Cult get 2 different red lightsabers they WANT to believe is Vaders.  No way Vader's survived the Death Star.



Never said it wasn't Sith site, I don't know what point you were trying to make there.  As to the Rebels saber having stable blades I chalk that up to the animation.  As to why Kylo's saber is obviously cobbled together, as I said maybe Luke had not taught Ben to make one...Maybe Luke was trying to steer away from violence or maybe it is all Kylo had.  I'm sure we will get more info as it progresses.    The flat blade design is also seen in the concept for Darth Bane in clone wars, from that it is obvious they are meant to be the early sabers.  As to the tech being more or less advanced than beam sabers...not something that I nitpick.  Canon is Canon.  Had to accept it under Lucas and it is no different now.

Actually, since Luke carried Vader's body out of the Death Star unless his saber dropped down that hole with the Emperor then there's a high probablility that Luke recovered Vader's saber also.



Usually teaching the padawans to make their own saber was one of the last things taught traditionally. My theory is that Ben went rogue before this lesson was completed. But the question then becomes why wouldn't Snoke provide him with adequate knowledge to make a decent lightsaber?

A few things:  While Luke took the time to get his own saber I doubt he would have taken the time to hunt for Vaders.  If he had retrieved Vader's saber then he would have more than likely placed it on the Pyre with the Armor.  The biggest thing though is, they were fighting over the chasm and Vader's hand was over the railing when Luke cut it off...no other place it could have gone but down the hole.

There is what looks like a slash on Kylo's saber just below the emitter.  Where the wire is going.   I wonder if he originally had a normal lightsaber, and that his was damaged fighting another lightsaber.  This might have caused the damage to his crystal.  Instead of hunting for a new crystal, he instead modifies his saber with the vents and jury-rigs the power connections with the exposed wiring.  He tries it out and feels it suits him, looking and sounding dangerous.

Something I have said before..I wonder how Kylo knew the Lightsaber by sight.  I guess he could have seen holo's of Anakin but still

The famous poster child of the Republic during the Clone Wars, Anakin Skywalker, and the Hero of Yavin, Luke Skywalker, both would have had their largest amounts of propaganda materials for their respective forces while in possession of that lightsaber.  So if there are any surviving videos of Anakin or old Alliance materials with Luke, it will have that lightsaber in them.

This is a good point.

Plus, I think that perhaps he would have felt a connection through the force.  Knew what it was.

I don't remember it being destroyed, only its owner getting schooled in grand fashion. Snoke did dispatch Hux to fetch Ren to finish his training. Perhaps synth-crystal forging is on the final. ;)

If memory serves, Vader's saber took the same plunge the Emperor did, when Luke chopped off his hand. I don't think it made it off the Death Star. And I seriously doubt it could have survived a nuclear explosion of that magnitude. (Sorry DT, just read your comment on that note. We do agree on that note.)

My only point was that Malachore wasn't the only place he could have seen them. However it does raise a curious question: Was the ancient design necessitated by not knowing how to divine suitable crystals? RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR If Ren's had been a one off, it would have made sense, but this "ancient saber" BS is just complicating the mess. You SUCK, Disney.

Beam sabers? You leave Gundam out of this.

I started thinking about this. Perhaps one of Ben's turning points was, like his grandfather, a thirst for power. The saber would definitely be a mark of power in a boys eyes, much the same way a gun is in our world. Perhaps Snoke isn't as powerful as he would have us think.

An interesting theory, however the opening in question is pretty clean. Plus this design breaks with the tradition that the kyber and focus crystals are located more in the middle of the hilt. Plus I believe kyber crystals are like budgies, red ones don't exist in nature. He would have had to forge a new red crystal.

I don't think propaganda would work for either cause.

1) Grievous admits that he suspected Anakin of being older, which means he never had a visual of him until they met on the Invisible Hand.
2) If you're running a rebellion, you don't exactly advertise, let alone point out your best agents.

My best guess is that he felt what Rey did, and was able to discern its history. (Again, just caught up LR)

Disney sources say they use Kyber crystals. Synthetics have yet to be mentioned in Disney-canon. They have yet to mention where the color comes from, ie the force user's meditation or the crystal's natural color. It is suspected that the white sabers Ahsoka uses are linked to her unaffiliated status, which would support her neutral position of light or dark, jedi or sith, influencing the crystal. So, until otherwise shown, I'm leaning to the belief that the meditation of the user makes the color. Legend canon would make the synthetics red, and Kyber crystals would be colored by the user. But, Luke and his new Jedi used many things as crystals with lots of color possibilities in legend canon.

Darth Vader's saber was found, but someone made a point that it was found multiple times in Disney canon. So, characters may just believe it's his. I view it that I don't know what was in the shaft into which it fell. It fell before the Emperor. The Emperor's fall was accompanied by an explosion, but the saber may have fallen into some other path. If Anakin/Luke's saber can be found after falling into some ventilation tube, then Vader's could perhaps have been found by someone evacuating before the Deathstar exploded. Kylo is a collector of Vader memorabilia. He has Vader's helmet. He wants the saber. Maybe he has or will find Vader's saber.

That was my point.  The design might be of necessity rather than want.  Much like swords went from casted to Pattern Welded to Crucible and finally to Mono Steel.  Again it is only theory but perhaps Luke put off Lightsaber construction for some reason... and Kylo had to start from scratch.  I am sure this will get explained  since the are keeping much of Luke and Ben's travels under wraps for now.     I know nothing of gundam....

I remember quite distinctly. Because I had at first thought that Rey had cut his hand off thus continuing the ongoing 'in every movie someone gets a hand cut off at least once' theme that has been going on through the first 6 movies. But on closer inspection, it was just the saber falling to the ground in 2 pieces. It's on the Blu Ray movie. At about 1:57:30, they are grappling, her left holding his right wrist and vice versa. She has his blade tip down in the snow. Then she gets her right hand free of his as he's holding it and slashes through the hilt of his saber.

If you play it in slow motion, you can see part of the saber go flying off.  Then the next shot that we see him, laying on the ground, it's obscured by snow but it looks like his saber is laying there beside him missing the emitter.

According to the OC, Luke's crystal was synthetic. The green color came of his choice during its creation. (It was actually a decision made in post. LS sabers were all going to be blue, but they needed a color that stood out better against the blue sky over Tatooine. Thus green was born. ;)) The Empire had made lightsabers illegal (hence why Kanan kept his in 2 pieces, to diminish its saber-esque appearance. ::)), and had occupied all crystal producing planets. A) He probably wouldn't have known where to go to get one, and B) he would have had to get past the Empire to get one. Although, how he learned to synthesize a crystal I don't know. The Sith typically wouldn't be bothered by coloring a crystal, thusly why Sith sabers are traditionally red. It also added to the practicality of the territories. The Sith Empire lay in the "Unknown Regions" beyond the Republic. Even after their forces collided, it was unlikely that the Sith and Jedi were going to go crystal shopping at the same locations.

"Hey Darth."
"Hey Jed. Whatcha up to?"
"Looking for saber crystal. Gonna kill you with it. You?"
"Same."

It conjures memories of this
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTcM7zB8z6HCcQNgXN5fAp7XKm5L8Ei9uXhv_IY1G-a-wa8tJlf)

If what you say is true, (SPOILER ALERT!) then why wasn't Ezra's new saber turning red while he was using the dark side after finding the Sith holocron?


To the fate of Vader's saber, I sincerely doubt that in the mad scramble to get the hell out of Dodge, anyone is going to happen across it. It most like landed in an unoccupied area and never even seen.

Then this...
(http://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/giphy.gif)
If it wasn't destroyed, then it ended up as one of a billion pieces of space debris hopelessly lost in the void. The helmet would have been an easy find. Go to Endor, poke around, "Hey, a melted helmet. Score." Question is, who initially found it, Ren or Snoke? As for the Flex showing up, I firmly believe that was the doing of some jock itch that said "Let's have the Skywalker saber show up with no convincing story. We'll make millions." I mean Abrams ripped off most everything else from Ep.4, why not find the most iconic saber once again being stored in a chest by some old fogie?

But as to the original question of "blade fields" I found this

(http://a.dilcdn.com/bl/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2016/06/kylo-hilt.jpg)(http://images.techtimes.com/data/images/full/173990/kylo-ren-saber-jpg.jpg?w=600)

I like the part about "recently constructed". Looking also at the openings on the primary and quillions, both have similar if not identical constructions. My only worry is that part about "raw power" which suggest that it is in fact bled power and no field. But then that would also suggest that the primary has no field either. This might also go to help explain the unstable appearance of the blades.

(https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-126c77065ae2d1cbf1db440a00147b1e?convert_to_webp=true)

In this cutaway, no emitters are indicated. From this we can either conclude that none exist, or that their inclusion is just assumed. Being old-school, I lean toward the assumption of inclusion. I'm inclined to believe that if the blades are simply raw energy, that this saber design would drain its power supply in very short order.



Gundam is an anime franchise that kicked up 2 years after SW. One of the legacy weapon technologies that spans the various series is an energy weapon known as a beam saber.
(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/gundam/images/3/3e/Fenice_Rinascita_Beam_Saber.png/revision/latest?cb=20140325104037)
The only real difference is that it is scaled to the size of a 50' tall battle mech. Awesome. ;D


I hate to bust on your "theme", but nobody lost hands in episodes 1 & 4.

I Googled "did kylo ren lose his hand". The result is as follows:

According to the script, Kylo Ren didn't lose his hand. He got struck in the face and chest only. ... HE GOES DOWN, SUDDENLY A FEARFUL MAN, A LARGE BURN SCAR SLASHED ACROSS HIS FACE! He still reaches for his saber.

I wasn't just talking about the main characters. In Episode 4, the scene in Mos Eisley where Obi Wan cuts off the arm (and hand along with it) of the alien who is threatening Luke. And although it's not "cut off" C3PO lost his arm in Episode 4 in the encounter with the Sand People.

Sorry, I did specify 'hand' but really...

In episode 1, nobody loses a hand... True, but I think the fact that they cut Darth Maul IN HALF makes up for that.

And as for Episode 7, my point entirely is that Kylo Ren didn't get his hand cut off. I had THOUGHT he did, but she misses his hand and hits the underside of the emitter of his lightsaber, severing at least a part of his lightsaber but leaving his hand intact.  


Although I said "Hand" when I should have said "limb", you didn't "bust" anything.
The whole point is that Episode 7 nobody lost a hand or a leg or other limb... where as the other 6 movies someone did at least once in each of the movies. After all, Darth Maul lost both his legs at the same time. He was cut in half.

http://www.starwars.com/news/every-limb-lost-in-the-star-wars-films (http://www.starwars.com/news/every-limb-lost-in-the-star-wars-films)


So why not get back to the idea that Kylo Rens saber was the thing that was damaged in Episode 7?

Sonovabitch. I just got schooled by a damn kid.  :-[

If the main blade has no emitter/field, I suppose we'd have to assume his raw power main blade is impacting on the outside of Rey/Anakin's field. Two fieldless lightsabers would pass through one another and cut both duelers.  But even with her field, his saber's energy should just be deflected back at him like a blaster bolt. He must have a field on his main blade.

In original canon, I always thought the plasma blade was not so dissimilar from a plasma bolt being bounced and cycled within the field. No field at all would release the energy endlessly in one direction like a blaster shot. The vented energy is 'raw power', but not a directed plasma bolt. Hence, it doesn't fire out endlessly, but is excess energy that was not directed into the main beam. The vented energy is either due to misalignment of a cracked crystal or excess energy that escapes in some other way that the crystal can't endure.  A field recycling the vented energy would keep it in excess and damage the crystal further.

I expected his main blade looks as it does, because of fluctuating energy levels and misalignment. I expected the vents are also fluctuating as needed to protect the crystal. I still don't see anything to show the vents have a field. I still don't think the writers got that far. Their idea was excess energy, a cracked crystal and it looks like quillons. Kylo is powerful, cracked in the mind and being trained in ancient ways.

It depends on if the Kyber Crystal was new or salvaged.  Once a Kyber crystal takes a color it doesn't change..at least that is the going theory. Have yet to see conformation on that.  Bur perhaps light will be shed after the Ahsoka novel is released soon, it will detail her obtaining her new  lightsabers. 


I know WHAT Gundam is. I just never watched it as I am not that into giant robots..with a few exceptions.

Don't know how I missed this.

So the color change is brought on through direct meditation and not just ambient proximity to the wielder's aura?

I don't know of any examples of just changing due to aura presence. All cases I knew involved the saber maker affecting the color through meditation. In EU, some were alternate crystals and materials that could be used and had color. In The Clone Wars, it wasn't addressed, except that the kids all had light blue-ish crystals that resulted in greens and blues in their sabers. With Ahsoka in her book and TCW, I guess we just get what we get from the crystal that beckons the Jedi in the Force, and all dark siders breaking the crystal to their will result in red.

Apparently a light sider meditating on a crystal that has been used by a dark sider (red blades) will turn the blade white once the new lightsaber is finished.

The explanation we get for the regular crystals after the Gathering was that the youngling needs to give the crystal life otherwise it is useless for what they are trying to do.  We seem them mediating while piecing their lightsabers together.  So it is likely they interact with the crystal as the lightsaber is being formed around it.  Possibly using the Force to get the crystal to the right shape to channel the energy through it to form the blade.  Doing so likely alters the facets of the crystal and thus changes what color of the EM Spectrum it projects with the beam.   My guess is that while the Jedi seek balance or harmony within the Force, the Sith seek order and power, thus it is entirely possible that their meditations tend to comes out the same regardless of the crystal used for a lightsaber, as they come out with a facet pattern that is both orderly and provides the maximum amount of power for their blade.  This happens to give the blade a red color every single time, as it is orderly and powerful.

In terms of Sith the explanation is the Sith bend the Crystal to their will..by force.  Instead of developing a connection with the crystal they make it serve them..which makes the crystal "bleed".  Where the red comes from

Bleeding could still be a form of ordering the crystal to a specific shape and thus causing the light to come out red.  It would be rather orderly for the Sith to all do it the same way.   The Galactic Empire is there to enforce order on the galaxy after all.

I like the idea of maximizing power and changing the crystal in a certain way resulting in consistent red. A crystal that has been adapted to produce 'the best' energy may always produce a reddish beam. This would continue ideas from the past where some say Sith sabers are more powerful, while some say Jedi sabers are stronger. The stability found in natural harmonious crystal structure may be of benefit, while rearranging the crystal to make a beam of particular energy may be of benefit at other times.

Also, a Sith who tries to restructure the crystal may not do as well as another Sith. Kylo's crystal being cracked may be due to his 'being torn apart' as he's not truly certain of his embracing the dark side. Or it's just some mistake or inexperience with restructuring the crystal. Either way, it gives a reason why it's cracked that could fit the character, a reason why dark siders all get reddish sabers and keeps significance of a Jedi's attempt to remain in harmony allowing such variety of color.

I still like a crystal to produce color when the Jedi's individual way of thinking affects meditation. I don't mind a crystal that is in tune with the Force, but I don't care for having Jedi walk past crystals that aren't choosing them. The inanimate sentience goes too far, taking away from character's choice and influence in some way.

It is not so much the inanimate, but the Force.  The Force calls through the crystal could be akin to foreknowledge that that is the crystal to be used by this particular Force wielder.   Destiny is a very real thing in Star Wars due to the Force, so it stands to reason that a Jedi would only find a crystal that will be theirs because of the Force, rather than randomly grabbing a crystal and slapping it in as if it didn't matter.

In "The Gathering" the more hot headed youngling that wished to be first, more or less grabbed the first crystal-like thing he could....turned out to be ice and melted.  He did not use the Force but just struck out at random to be first, and it cost him time.  He later attempted to be first to finish his lightsaber, and built it wrong.  Had there not been an expert there, he would have likely killed himself by having his saber explode in his hands.  This turned out to be an advantage later, but not when he rushed to complete things.  Even Yoda warned about rushing to complete ones training to Luke.  The Dark Path that can lead as one tries to do things quicker and easier, not minding where one is or what one is doing.

You end up lopping some kids heads off because your master tells you to "wipe them out".  All in the name of order and protecting one's family.

Question: If you have a crystal and it works in a saber, what is the point of changing its color? Jedi or Sith?

Now you're thinking Grey  ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

It's not an intentional color change. It's not a change in the ambient presence of the user. In the Disney canon Sith's case, it's about changing the crystal and dominating it. In the Jedi's case, constructing a saber involves using the Force to align the crystal inside. This meditation to feel and move the crystal also forms a connection. In EU, the crystal responds with a color that could be due to alignment, structuring or something else that's influenced by the Jedi's way of thinking in meditation. In Disney, it might just be the color that crystal had. Color may not mean anything about a Jedi's way of thinking in Disney. Red means dark side in Disney.

*trigger warning*


I hate Disney.

Red has always meant Dark sider. You didn't answer my question. If the saber works, why mess with the crystal?


Trigger warning? Or do you mean *hammer cocking*?

Disney canon still follows the events of TCW series where the crystals have no color, but come out with colors after meditation.  The Ahsoka novel follows this as well.

A crystal might be a crystal, but the package built around it is usually unique and thus the power channeled through the crystal might not work the same as it did on the previous lightsaber as the shape and power might be different.  One wouldn't want to turn on a slapped together lightsaber only to have the blade come out through the activation switch and though one's hand or body.  Or have the beam scattered in all directions by the facets not being setup for the power frequency the user is putting through it.

Best to meditate with the Force and build it properly, even if that causes the crystal to change in some way.  At least you will know the lightsaber will work.

 >:( >:( >:( Still not answering the question. If you have a saber that works, why #@$% with it?

If you have a saber that works, sure.   Ventress bought some on the blackmarket if I recall that didn't change color since she didn't mess with them.  Most times we see this happening is because the saber in question was destroyed and a new one needed to be fashioned.

As to why the Inquisitors might not use just whatever lightsabers are left over at the Jedi Temple?  I guess they want their spinning duel bladed weapons as it gives them something the remaining young Jedi will have a problem dealing with.

Probably because TCW was made under the OC assumption that you find a colored crystal and boom, that's what color your blade is. But the question is still not being answered. I've heard many DC answers to saber questions over the last few weeks. Despite being the so-called truth, they have failed to blow my skirt up.

"The red color is a result of the crystal bleeding from being dominated." Why would a dark sider waste time with the visual aesthetics of a piece of hardware? It makes as much sense as searching an active battle field for a blaster that shoots blue because you like the color, instead of "this one has ammo, I'll use it."

And they can't very well say that only Force sensitives can use a saber because

(http://briff.me/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Star-Wars-Secrets-The-Empire-Strikes-Back-Han-Solo-Tauntaun.jpg)

CANON! A saber is a piece of technology. Nothing more.

And if they even try to spin some lame ass story about Han being a low grade Force wielder, I will spend my every waking second raising the funds to acquire the rights to Star Wars and dump everything that Disney ever made for the franchise.

The crystal must be set when building it. It doesn't work until after the crystal is 'messed with'. There's no need to change it after the fact, unless it falls out of alignment etc. There are also numerous cases in EU where the saber is not quite suited to a new user. Some think it's a saber design thing. Others think it's a Force thing.

It sounds like you're trying to ask why Sith need to do anything to the crystal. Heir to the Jedi and other stories have examples of sabers that subtly resist new users. Luke found an amethyst saber that felt slippery, regardless of how much he cleaned and dried it. He postulated that his father's saber didn't resist, because he is his father's son. I would expect Disney is suggesting a crystal, being strong in the Force, refuses the will of a Sith user or even the wrong Jedi user. Hence, a Sith bleeds the crystal to dominate it. It will likely come into play to explain why Anakin/Luke's saber went to Rey instead of Kylo.

Whatever the resistance, sabers can be used by anyone.
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--7x7mkDAf--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/my7bydawmcnz4jims6c0.png)

As I said before, I like the idea that perhaps the Sith is really changing the crystal for the sake of strengthening it. Such an idea was in Book of Sith. Some would think a modified crystal will be stronger. Others will think a natural crystal is stronger as it is in harmony with the will of the Force. But, it's not stated plainly in DC, that I know of. Just statements about dominating etc. A Sith messes with a crystal because a Sith is bullheaded and tries to dominate everything, instead of work with what is naturally available. I'd prefer we just have kept it as synthetic crystals for Sith with red sabers. That's DC's HarryPotter blend for ya.

The thing is, we've seen so few Sith and dark siders that we don't know why they have their lightsabers.   Ventress was handed hers, so she didn't make them.  Savage's was also likely handed to him by Dooku (I don't recall when he changed from a magic weapon to a Sith weapon),  Dooku likely made his later lightsaber after leaving the Jedi Order as his new weapon suits fighting Jedi.   Palpatine was hiding from the Jedi and likely made his own weapons that he could hide them on his person.   Maul made his own saberstaff from what I remember so he could crush Jedi.  Vader had to made a new one after Obi-wan took his old one.  That might be pride with Vader.  We don't know for sure if Kylo had a lightsaber before turning to the dark side, and after 50 year, it might be difficult to find a lightsaber left over from the Clone Wars.

Was there anyone else we have seen on the screen aside from the Inquisitors, who all have a special kind of weapon, that are dark siders?    General Krell still used his old saberstaffs.  Anakin used his old saber until after Mustifar.

This, again, has to do with adding more mysticism back into the Lore.  Each crystal is attuned to a wielder, Darksiders can not attune themselves with a Crystal because of the Light Side leanings of the Kyber Crystals so they must bend the crystal to their will.    Think on it this way.  In a real world scenario, and I say this from experience, any competent swordsman can use any sword but when you find one that is "just right" or as in my case have one made to your specs...it will sing for you.  This is of course comfort based but extend the idea to the crystals.  As stated this may clue into why Anakin's saber went to Rey instead of Kylo.  As far as I know no one has made the claim only force weilders can use Sabers.  Grevious wasn't a force user nor was Pre Visla, Cad Bane or the thief who stole Ahsoka's saber.  All were able to ignite and wield a lightsaber...some better than others..all within the Clone Wars.

Obi-wan was able to use Ventress's saber, but he didn't like it.  Anakin used Dooku's briefly but didn't keep it.  Anakin used Barris' for a bit, while Barris used Ventress's sabers, though she thought they suited her.   It isn't clear if Dooku made those sabers, or if someone else did, as I don't think Ventress made them.  We can assume Ventress went on a Gathering pilgrimage when she became a Padawan since she had a lightsaber in her flashbacks, right?  Or was that her picking up her master's saber?

Anakin and Obi-wan swap sabers in their duel for a bit, but there own sabers came back to them when called.


"This weapon is your life"

Hate them if you want, but allow me to give you somethings to ruminate on.  Disney writes the checks and of course has the ability to nix anything they wish; BUT  Lucasfilm, specifically Kathleen Kennedy and  Pablo Hidalgo are in charge of the Star Wars content.  Any decisions  are most certainly theirs.  The Disney acquisition, contrary to popular belief, revitalized the SW brand.  Star Wars was never NOT a money maker in the last 30 years but with less than stellar feelings from fans towards the prequels, SW games and book sales down etc  it was slowly bleeding.  TFA is the highest grossing Star Wars film..ever.  However you feel about the film you can't deny it's rejuvenated wider interest in Star Wars, will it Hold?  We Will see.  Now to Lucas himself.  Lucas is a brilliant Idea man...but has limited vision and ability to bring said ideas to life.   Empire and ROTJ are widely considered the best SW films..neither were directed by Lucas and both had the scripts re written (Lawrence Kasdan who also co wrote TFA).   Lucas felt the SW Universe began and ended with Anakin, Nothing before his Birth (unless directly related) and nothing after his redemption and Death mattered.  It's why we got Clone Wars instead of a continuation of the story.  Lucas as well never considered the EU as anything other than an alternate universe to his own..but he was not above borrowing from it...no different that what is happening now.  Indeed many EU fans have not been happy with Lucas since the prequels since a few things he set forth contradicted things in the EU...foremost was Boba's origin, and How the Mando's were depicted in Clone Wars REALLY made a lot of people mad..including one of the SW authors.  Long and short of if, hate them if you will...won't try change your mind on it...but just keep in mind they at least had the balls to try and move forward instead of spinning their wheels .

Love it, DT. You have eloquently and adequately said something I've tried unsuccessfully to tell people for months now. ;D

I assume HTTJ is DC? In which case.....whatever. I am most displeased with this HP approach to sabers. In the BOTS, I believe the strength of a synth crystal was determined by the strength of the will that forged it. Which makes sense. Jedi frowned upon synth crystals, as they believed they were a temptation to quick power.

I believe it's a translucent rock that emits a high intensity beam when energized. Yes the Force is required to properly align the guts of a saber, but any idiot can turn one on.

Thusly my point...
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/1/1b/Finn_Lightsaber_Stance.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20160109121029)


According to DM: Shadow Hunter, Sidious told Maul to use a saber staff, and it was done. Sith and their various hierarchy of stooges may have been required to construct their own sabers as a demonstration of skill. Since OC Sith used synth crystals, it would have been an adequate demonstration of commitment since forging a synth crystal usually took at least several consecutive days of meditation to perfectly form the crystals in a furnace.

It seems that most saber variants are introduced through the Sith/Darksiders because they usually offer an advantage in combat. And true to form, most Jedi would look down on such advantages as unnecessary grabs for power.


I'm calling shenanigans. This is just another Jedi ploy to keep the Sith down because we don't buy into their rhetorical BS. >:( I'll site the line from the Grey code, "There can be no good without evil..." Just as death must be able to counter life, so too must the darkness exist to distinguish the light. So why is it that the "bad guys" get shafted in this mix? Kyber crystals are rocks, nothing more. Plus, DC or OC, the concept of the Force having a will just totally sours my stomach. (https://ih0.redbubble.net/image.176226760.1413/flat,800x800,075,f.u1.jpg)

But I totally feel you on the note of the housing. Not everyone can handle the girth of the Scorpion but it suits me perfectly. But then that still begs the question, if you have a crystal and it works in one saber, why not simply leave it alone and use it to construct a new hilt better suited to your physiology? What's the need to "dominate" it? It's a rock, it doesn't have much personality.


I don't recall this happening. Might require another viewing.


According to Google, ANH is the 3rd highest grossing movie of all time (inflation accounted). If you're looking at simple box office numbers, TFA made the most because it had the highest ticket prices, not because more people went to see it. I will admit a 12yr dry spell in movies is enough to make the franchise slump a little, and a new movie, no matter how bad, is going to cause new surge of interest. I just wish that they get their heads out of their butts and realize that just because it's new doesn't make it good. Take Rebels. The best story points that have come up in that show have ALL been from the OC. Vader, Maul, Ahsoka, the Sith Temple, Tarkin, Thrawn, Lando, Hondo. I've heard rumors that they are thinking about bring elements of TOR back into the canon. But I fear that if they don't get Revan right, there will be riots. I initially had an ill opinion of Ren's saber, but with decent explanation, it started making more sense. Plus despite being a required element to a design flaw, the quillions served a function in combat. That pleased me. But the Inq. sabers just defy all sound logic in design all for the sake of a stupid gimmick. And then they had them flight capable. (where'd I put that hurl emogi?)

Plus I finally pegged why they wrote Leia out of being a Jedi. They just had to have the old gang back together.

Not exactly Jedi material...
(http://cdn1us.denofgeek.com/sites/denofgeekus/files/styles/article_width/public/2/71//leia-jedi-2.jpg?itok=3tBZC017) vs. (http://cdn04.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/fisher-sorority/carrie-fisher-sorority-row-06.jpg)

I don't hold it against people for being excited or even happy with the DC. But I firmly believe that it could be much better if fans didn't just blindly accept whatever Disney decides to feed them as good. And stop making kids shows canon. Can you imagine how stupid the franchise would be if LEGO SW mini-series were canon?

But as I've stated before, I will withhold final judgment until the movies are done. Who knows? Maybe TFA will end up being the TPM of this trilogy.

There is a theory that Finn is Force sensitive as when we see the Hosnian system destroyed Finn is preparing to leave Tokodano on the freighter. As he climbs the ship's ramp he "hears" the screams of millions of terrified souls. He turns and looks at the sky and sees the Starkiller projectiles. No-one else notices the screams and all the people in Maz's bar are stood in silence outsde as the destruction happens. This is similar to Kenobi's reaction to Alderaan on the Falcon in Star Wars. Maybe the Force helped Finn use the saber.

~¿~

I have sensed that Finn is Force capable for a number of reasons throughout the story and book.

To address the rock with energy, DC is making it a rock that is connected with the Force as if it were an entity. As if a crystal is intended, or at least suited, for a certain person or type of person. They likely intended that the saber chose Rey over Ren or the Force willed it to her. With Heir to the Jedi, we see directly that even a Jedi who can use another Jedi's saber will struggle with it more than his own saber. In Luke's case, an untrained Jedi using a weapon that belonged to his father is easier than the saber that belonged to some other Jedi he never met. Disney is trying to say Jedi accept the will of the Force, which was always canon, while Sith believe the Force is a tool to be commanded, which was always canon. They've just gone HarryPottery barn to make the crystals like HP's wands having some will that chooses the user and weakening Voldesith in the process. Then, modifying the idea of Sith's alchemy to manipulate crystals as they did in EU, DC is having Sith dominate the crystal as the Sith dominate the Force.

I immediately feel it adds nothing. It makes the mysticism less mysterious and more magical. Less indicative of a user's internal character and more out of one's hands.

Ideas are fun and gives us all something to obsessively talk about, but that's still not the core of what makes Star Wars great. Star Wars is character driven, not drama driven. Drama drives the characters, not the audience. Character traits and heroism drive the audience. That's the power that has allowed SW to last and touch us in ways we can't quite label.

Have serious issues with Finn being sensitive. He has military training and yet couldn't out perform a total noob with a saber? If he were Force sensitive, he should have been easily been able out do Rey against Ren. But no.

"Life creates it. Makes it grow." - Yoda
"The Force is an energy field created by all living things." - QG Jinn

 So why would something non-living have a natural connection to it?

+1 for HarryPottery Barn :P

Yes. I feel that the DC is too driven by gimmicks and not enough of by story and good characters. Take Downton Abbey for instance. For all of the hype surrounding it, the stories were good, not great, and slightly predictable. What made that show great, however were the characters; the viewer invested in them. TFA characters just seemed kind of robotic.

This is I think where the split fandom needs to have an understanding.  Because I am not vehemently objecting to Disney does not mean I think every decision is a good one. example:  I think the anthology films are a terrible idea especially the subject of the films so far.  But, I like enough of it that I haven't thrown my hands in the air about it.  That may Change as we progress of course.  As I stated once before, this story and these characters...are not ours.  They were owned by one man and he decided to sell them to a company, what ever Lucas said was Law and now that goes for Pablo under Disney's purview.  This feels no different than when Lucas was in charge to me.  How many decisions of Lucas did we have to accept when we made it clear we didn't like them?  To Sum up, I'm not On Board 100% with all of the new Canon... just enough of it not to give up. 

I see potential. I went cold the latter part of TFA. The potential paths that sparked my imagination in the first part, followed by the books and comics will bring me back. I can't deny my feelings because someone doesn't share my opinion. I won't invalidate someone else because they like something or throw their hands up when they don't. I won't always agree and shouldn't be invalidated when I disagree. I'll try to comfort others with the way I see good things and hope for consolation over the parts that left a gaping maw in my heart that arguing and reminding me I'm powerless just doesn't seem to sooth.  ;)  Sharing joys and sharing struggles make things better than denial.  ::)

I like the prequels better than TFA. (Takes cover)

Don't get me wrong, despite my negative view of where things are heading, I'm actually an optimist. I still hold onto the hope that things will get better, and lame ideas will get ironed out to better fit.

When I have advocated that the fans "own" this fictional universe, I spoke of a technicality. Think about what would happen to any major franchise that displeased enough of their fans. The ratings would plummet and no one would continue funding productions. By this technicality, LucasFilm works for us, and we pay them. We, the fans, pretty much have the ability to tell them that their work is not satisfactory and "they're fired." The problem is that too many don't see this and blindly accept everything as "good work." The same can be of other organizations that shall remain nameless on the forum. ;)

Ermahgerd, yes. When that stupid line came, I was about to puke. Then Han got offed. Pretty much the movie just fell apart after the Force vision. >:( :'( Actually it kinda fell apart after "A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away..." :P

As I said before, our only power as consumers is to not buy.. and I fully agree if enough people don't buy then they will change.  But, again, you seem to assume people just "blindly accept" it.  No doubt there are those out there who are that way, but there Are those of us who actually DID enjoy TFA.

Most assumptions are based on observation. But my sphere is limited. And everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

But the buyer-seller relationship is no different than an employer-employee relationship. One pays the other, and discontinues to do so due to unsatisfactory results or performance.


But after a lengthy hiatus from the main point.... ;D

Has anyone else conceived that Ren intentionally cracked his crystal in order to achieve the resulting saber?

Point for the idea.

Could a vent be put in without cracking it?

Is the vented energy from a cracked crystal seeping all around the crystal or with some focal point of it's own that the vent ports must match?

Hmm... This is an interesting idea. But I don't like giving him that much credit.

Given Rens tendency towards fits of rage that often result in random destruction, perhaps he cracked the crystal out of anger.

That's how I'm still seeing it for now. And with the info from Ahsoka's novel about subduing a crystal, Ren may either damaged the crystal or the crystal split as he is split in his own thinking. DC has taken away much influence a Jedi has on their crystal, but seems to still transplant Ren's qualities to his saber.

Something we do not know is if Kylo built a lightsaber prior to his fall.  Or if this saber is his first.  Or more interesting would be if this was his first saber that got damaged in battle and he rebuilt it into the crossguard based on what he could do with what remained of the crystal and hilt.

C'mon. I'm trying to give the character some chops instead of just being a pathetic emo wimp. And you have to admit, deliberately constructing this saber as it is makes for a more imposing villain.

Just....please......no. Can't they just tell a good sci-fi story without every last thing being crammed with rhetorical metaphor?

Doubtful. Unless the DC is throwing out everything we prized from the OC, Luke would doubtless have upheld the Jedi belief in resisting the temptation of easy power, and advocated simplicity in saber construction.

That it does. At the very least if he constructed it that way purposely then it shows he has some sort of competence.