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Author Topic: Saber Venting  (Read 22018 times)
Darth Tepes
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« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2016, 06:10:03 PM »

Actually, since Luke carried Vader's body out of the Death Star unless his saber dropped down that hole with the Emperor then there's a high probablility that Luke recovered Vader's saber also.




A few things:  While Luke took the time to get his own saber I doubt he would have taken the time to hunt for Vaders.  If he had retrieved Vader's saber then he would have more than likely placed it on the Pyre with the Armor.  The biggest thing though is, they were fighting over the chasm and Vader's hand was over the railing when Luke cut it off...no other place it could have gone but down the hole.
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« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2016, 07:08:51 PM »

There is what looks like a slash on Kylo's saber just below the emitter.  Where the wire is going.   I wonder if he originally had a normal lightsaber, and that his was damaged fighting another lightsaber.  This might have caused the damage to his crystal.  Instead of hunting for a new crystal, he instead modifies his saber with the vents and jury-rigs the power connections with the exposed wiring.  He tries it out and feels it suits him, looking and sounding dangerous.
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« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2016, 07:29:25 PM »

Something I have said before..I wonder how Kylo knew the Lightsaber by sight.  I guess he could have seen holo's of Anakin but still
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« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2016, 08:27:29 PM »

The famous poster child of the Republic during the Clone Wars, Anakin Skywalker, and the Hero of Yavin, Luke Skywalker, both would have had their largest amounts of propaganda materials for their respective forces while in possession of that lightsaber.  So if there are any surviving videos of Anakin or old Alliance materials with Luke, it will have that lightsaber in them.
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Benji
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« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2016, 11:24:07 PM »

A few things:  While Luke took the time to get his own saber I doubt he would have taken the time to hunt for Vaders.  If he had retrieved Vader's saber then he would have more than likely placed it on the Pyre with the Armor.  The biggest thing though is, they were fighting over the chasm and Vader's hand was over the railing when Luke cut it off...no other place it could have gone but down the hole.

This is a good point.
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« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2016, 11:13:16 AM »

Something I have said before..I wonder how Kylo knew the Lightsaber by sight.  I guess he could have seen holo's of Anakin but still
The famous poster child of the Republic during the Clone Wars, Anakin Skywalker, and the Hero of Yavin, Luke Skywalker, both would have had their largest amounts of propaganda materials for their respective forces while in possession of that lightsaber.  So if there are any surviving videos of Anakin or old Alliance materials with Luke, it will have that lightsaber in them.

Plus, I think that perhaps he would have felt a connection through the force.  Knew what it was.
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« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2016, 02:42:41 PM »

Part of me wonders if we will even see this saber in future movies. It was destroyed at the end of Ep. 7. So unless he salvaged the crystal from it or got another cracked crystal then there would be no need for the vents.
I don't remember it being destroyed, only its owner getting schooled in grand fashion. Snoke did dispatch Hux to fetch Ren to finish his training. Perhaps synth-crystal forging is on the final. Wink

I wondered why he was using a cracked crystal. If it was all available or he broke it. I also considered that if it is Vader's old saber, the crystal may have been broken before Kylo got it. He wants Anakin's saber, because he believes it will give him some stronger connection to his grandfather. He knows his cracked crystal is a problem, so he wants the other crystal that belonged to Anakin/Vader. In D-canon Aftermath Life Debt, Vader's saber is revealed to still exist. This could mean the cracked crystal in Kylo's 'ancient design' is Vader's. Though, there's nothing confirming that. Only that both Anakin's saber survived, and Kylo want's Anakin's saber.
If memory serves, Vader's saber took the same plunge the Emperor did, when Luke chopped off his hand. I don't think it made it off the Death Star. And I seriously doubt it could have survived a nuclear explosion of that magnitude. (Sorry DT, just read your comment on that note. We do agree on that note.)

Never said it wasn't Sith site, I don't know what point you were trying to make there.  As to the Rebels saber having stable blades I chalk that up to the animation.  As to why Kylo's saber is obviously cobbled together, as I said maybe Luke had not taught Ben to make one...Maybe Luke was trying to steer away from violence or maybe it is all Kylo had.  I'm sure we will get more info as it progresses.    The flat blade design is also seen in the concept for Darth Bane in clone wars, from that it is obvious they are meant to be the early sabers.  As to the tech being more or less advanced than beam sabers...not something that I nitpick.  Canon is Canon.  Had to accept it under Lucas and it is no different now.
My only point was that Malachore wasn't the only place he could have seen them. However it does raise a curious question: Was the ancient design necessitated by not knowing how to divine suitable crystals? RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR If Ren's had been a one off, it would have made sense, but this "ancient saber" BS is just complicating the mess. You SUCK, Disney.

Beam sabers? You leave Gundam out of this.

Usually teaching the padawans to make their own saber was one of the last things taught traditionally. My theory is that Ben went rogue before this lesson was completed. But the question then becomes why wouldn't Snoke provide him with adequate knowledge to make a decent lightsaber?
I started thinking about this. Perhaps one of Ben's turning points was, like his grandfather, a thirst for power. The saber would definitely be a mark of power in a boys eyes, much the same way a gun is in our world. Perhaps Snoke isn't as powerful as he would have us think.

There is what looks like a slash on Kylo's saber just below the emitter.  Where the wire is going.   I wonder if he originally had a normal lightsaber, and that his was damaged fighting another lightsaber.  This might have caused the damage to his crystal.  Instead of hunting for a new crystal, he instead modifies his saber with the vents and jury-rigs the power connections with the exposed wiring.  He tries it out and feels it suits him, looking and sounding dangerous.
An interesting theory, however the opening in question is pretty clean. Plus this design breaks with the tradition that the kyber and focus crystals are located more in the middle of the hilt. Plus I believe kyber crystals are like budgies, red ones don't exist in nature. He would have had to forge a new red crystal.

The famous poster child of the Republic during the Clone Wars, Anakin Skywalker, and the Hero of Yavin, Luke Skywalker, both would have had their largest amounts of propaganda materials for their respective forces while in possession of that lightsaber.  So if there are any surviving videos of Anakin or old Alliance materials with Luke, it will have that lightsaber in them.
I don't think propaganda would work for either cause.

1) Grievous admits that he suspected Anakin of being older, which means he never had a visual of him until they met on the Invisible Hand.
2) If you're running a rebellion, you don't exactly advertise, let alone point out your best agents.

My best guess is that he felt what Rey did, and was able to discern its history. (Again, just caught up LR)
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« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2016, 10:26:22 PM »

Disney sources say they use Kyber crystals. Synthetics have yet to be mentioned in Disney-canon. They have yet to mention where the color comes from, ie the force user's meditation or the crystal's natural color. It is suspected that the white sabers Ahsoka uses are linked to her unaffiliated status, which would support her neutral position of light or dark, jedi or sith, influencing the crystal. So, until otherwise shown, I'm leaning to the belief that the meditation of the user makes the color. Legend canon would make the synthetics red, and Kyber crystals would be colored by the user. But, Luke and his new Jedi used many things as crystals with lots of color possibilities in legend canon.

Darth Vader's saber was found, but someone made a point that it was found multiple times in Disney canon. So, characters may just believe it's his. I view it that I don't know what was in the shaft into which it fell. It fell before the Emperor. The Emperor's fall was accompanied by an explosion, but the saber may have fallen into some other path. If Anakin/Luke's saber can be found after falling into some ventilation tube, then Vader's could perhaps have been found by someone evacuating before the Deathstar exploded. Kylo is a collector of Vader memorabilia. He has Vader's helmet. He wants the saber. Maybe he has or will find Vader's saber.
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« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2016, 12:15:47 AM »


My only point was that Malachore wasn't the only place he could have seen them. However it does raise a curious question: Was the ancient design necessitated by not knowing how to divine suitable crystals? RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR If Ren's had been a one off, it would have made sense, but this "ancient saber" BS is just complicating the mess. You SUCK, Disney.

Beam sabers? You leave Gundam out of this.



That was my point.  The design might be of necessity rather than want.  Much like swords went from casted to Pattern Welded to Crucible and finally to Mono Steel.  Again it is only theory but perhaps Luke put off Lightsaber construction for some reason... and Kylo had to start from scratch.  I am sure this will get explained  since the are keeping much of Luke and Ben's travels under wraps for now.     I know nothing of gundam....
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« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2016, 03:22:53 PM »

I don't remember it being destroyed, only its owner getting schooled in grand fashion. Snoke did dispatch Hux to fetch Ren to finish his training. Perhaps synth-crystal forging is on the final. Wink

I remember quite distinctly. Because I had at first thought that Rey had cut his hand off thus continuing the ongoing 'in every movie someone gets a hand cut off at least once' theme that has been going on through the first 6 movies. But on closer inspection, it was just the saber falling to the ground in 2 pieces. It's on the Blu Ray movie. At about 1:57:30, they are grappling, her left holding his right wrist and vice versa. She has his blade tip down in the snow. Then she gets her right hand free of his as he's holding it and slashes through the hilt of his saber.

If you play it in slow motion, you can see part of the saber go flying off.  Then the next shot that we see him, laying on the ground, it's obscured by snow but it looks like his saber is laying there beside him missing the emitter.
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« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2016, 07:38:39 PM »

Disney sources say they use Kyber crystals. Synthetics have yet to be mentioned in Disney-canon. They have yet to mention where the color comes from, ie the force user's meditation or the crystal's natural color. It is suspected that the white sabers Ahsoka uses are linked to her unaffiliated status, which would support her neutral position of light or dark, jedi or sith, influencing the crystal. So, until otherwise shown, I'm leaning to the belief that the meditation of the user makes the color. Legend canon would make the synthetics red, and Kyber crystals would be colored by the user. But, Luke and his new Jedi used many things as crystals with lots of color possibilities in legend canon.

Darth Vader's saber was found, but someone made a point that it was found multiple times in Disney canon. So, characters may just believe it's his. I view it that I don't know what was in the shaft into which it fell. It fell before the Emperor. The Emperor's fall was accompanied by an explosion, but the saber may have fallen into some other path. If Anakin/Luke's saber can be found after falling into some ventilation tube, then Vader's could perhaps have been found by someone evacuating before the Deathstar exploded. Kylo is a collector of Vader memorabilia. He has Vader's helmet. He wants the saber. Maybe he has or will find Vader's saber.


According to the OC, Luke's crystal was synthetic. The green color came of his choice during its creation. (It was actually a decision made in post. LS sabers were all going to be blue, but they needed a color that stood out better against the blue sky over Tatooine. Thus green was born. Wink) The Empire had made lightsabers illegal (hence why Kanan kept his in 2 pieces, to diminish its saber-esque appearance. Roll Eyes), and had occupied all crystal producing planets. A) He probably wouldn't have known where to go to get one, and B) he would have had to get past the Empire to get one. Although, how he learned to synthesize a crystal I don't know. The Sith typically wouldn't be bothered by coloring a crystal, thusly why Sith sabers are traditionally red. It also added to the practicality of the territories. The Sith Empire lay in the "Unknown Regions" beyond the Republic. Even after their forces collided, it was unlikely that the Sith and Jedi were going to go crystal shopping at the same locations.

"Hey Darth."
"Hey Jed. Whatcha up to?"
"Looking for saber crystal. Gonna kill you with it. You?"
"Same."

It conjures memories of this


If what you say is true, (SPOILER ALERT!) then why wasn't Ezra's new saber turning red while he was using the dark side after finding the Sith holocron?


To the fate of Vader's saber, I sincerely doubt that in the mad scramble to get the hell out of Dodge, anyone is going to happen across it. It most like landed in an unoccupied area and never even seen.

Then this...

If it wasn't destroyed, then it ended up as one of a billion pieces of space debris hopelessly lost in the void. The helmet would have been an easy find. Go to Endor, poke around, "Hey, a melted helmet. Score." Question is, who initially found it, Ren or Snoke? As for the Flex showing up, I firmly believe that was the doing of some jock itch that said "Let's have the Skywalker saber show up with no convincing story. We'll make millions." I mean Abrams ripped off most everything else from Ep.4, why not find the most iconic saber once again being stored in a chest by some old fogie?

But as to the original question of "blade fields" I found this



I like the part about "recently constructed". Looking also at the openings on the primary and quillions, both have similar if not identical constructions. My only worry is that part about "raw power" which suggest that it is in fact bled power and no field. But then that would also suggest that the primary has no field either. This might also go to help explain the unstable appearance of the blades.



In this cutaway, no emitters are indicated. From this we can either conclude that none exist, or that their inclusion is just assumed. Being old-school, I lean toward the assumption of inclusion. I'm inclined to believe that if the blades are simply raw energy, that this saber design would drain its power supply in very short order.


I know nothing of gundam....

Gundam is an anime franchise that kicked up 2 years after SW. One of the legacy weapon technologies that spans the various series is an energy weapon known as a beam saber.

The only real difference is that it is scaled to the size of a 50' tall battle mech. Awesome. Grin

I remember quite distinctly. Because I had at first thought that Rey had cut his hand off thus continuing the ongoing 'in every movie someone gets a hand cut off at least once' theme that has been going on through the first 6 movies. But on closer inspection, it was just the saber falling to the ground in 2 pieces. It's on the Blu Ray movie. At about 1:57:30, they are grappling, her left holding his right wrist and vice versa. She has his blade tip down in the snow. Then she gets her right hand free of his as he's holding it and slashes through the hilt of his saber.

If you play it in slow motion, you can see part of the saber go flying off.  Then the next shot that we see him, laying on the ground, it's obscured by snow but it looks like his saber is laying there beside him missing the emitter.

I hate to bust on your "theme", but nobody lost hands in episodes 1 & 4.

I Googled "did kylo ren lose his hand". The result is as follows:

According to the script, Kylo Ren didn't lose his hand. He got struck in the face and chest only. ... HE GOES DOWN, SUDDENLY A FEARFUL MAN, A LARGE BURN SCAR SLASHED ACROSS HIS FACE! He still reaches for his saber.

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« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2016, 09:31:26 PM »


I hate to bust on your "theme", but nobody lost hands in episodes 1 & 4.

I Googled "did kylo ren lose his hand". The result is as follows:

According to the script, Kylo Ren didn't lose his hand. He got struck in the face and chest only. ... HE GOES DOWN, SUDDENLY A FEARFUL MAN, A LARGE BURN SCAR SLASHED ACROSS HIS FACE! He still reaches for his saber.


I wasn't just talking about the main characters. In Episode 4, the scene in Mos Eisley where Obi Wan cuts off the arm (and hand along with it) of the alien who is threatening Luke. And although it's not "cut off" C3PO lost his arm in Episode 4 in the encounter with the Sand People.

Sorry, I did specify 'hand' but really...

In episode 1, nobody loses a hand... True, but I think the fact that they cut Darth Maul IN HALF makes up for that.

And as for Episode 7, my point entirely is that Kylo Ren didn't get his hand cut off. I had THOUGHT he did, but she misses his hand and hits the underside of the emitter of his lightsaber, severing at least a part of his lightsaber but leaving his hand intact.  


Although I said "Hand" when I should have said "limb", you didn't "bust" anything.
The whole point is that Episode 7 nobody lost a hand or a leg or other limb... where as the other 6 movies someone did at least once in each of the movies. After all, Darth Maul lost both his legs at the same time. He was cut in half.

http://www.starwars.com/news/every-limb-lost-in-the-star-wars-films


So why not get back to the idea that Kylo Rens saber was the thing that was damaged in Episode 7?
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« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2016, 09:37:09 PM »

I wasn't just talking about the main characters. In Episode 4, the scene in Mos Eisley where Obi Wan cuts off the arm (and hand along with it) of the alien who is threatening Luke. And although it's not "cut off" C3PO lost his arm in Episode 4 in the encounter with the Sand People.

Sorry, I did specify 'hand' but really...

Sonovabitch. I just got schooled by a damn kid.  Embarrassed

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« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2016, 11:07:36 PM »

If the main blade has no emitter/field, I suppose we'd have to assume his raw power main blade is impacting on the outside of Rey/Anakin's field. Two fieldless lightsabers would pass through one another and cut both duelers.  But even with her field, his saber's energy should just be deflected back at him like a blaster bolt. He must have a field on his main blade.

In original canon, I always thought the plasma blade was not so dissimilar from a plasma bolt being bounced and cycled within the field. No field at all would release the energy endlessly in one direction like a blaster shot. The vented energy is 'raw power', but not a directed plasma bolt. Hence, it doesn't fire out endlessly, but is excess energy that was not directed into the main beam. The vented energy is either due to misalignment of a cracked crystal or excess energy that escapes in some other way that the crystal can't endure.  A field recycling the vented energy would keep it in excess and damage the crystal further.

I expected his main blade looks as it does, because of fluctuating energy levels and misalignment. I expected the vents are also fluctuating as needed to protect the crystal. I still don't see anything to show the vents have a field. I still don't think the writers got that far. Their idea was excess energy, a cracked crystal and it looks like quillons. Kylo is powerful, cracked in the mind and being trained in ancient ways.
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Selfish passion is unquenching.
What strength have you when you are a slave to your passions?
What power without strength of character?
To self centered rage, you will be chained.
The dark side is no victory.

The long path to peace is through balanced emotions.
The first step to gaining knowledge is recognizing your own ignorance.
Serenity is patient, not passionate satisfaction.
Find harmony by understanding chaos.
Become one with the force, which will never die.

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Force Alignment: -776
Posts: 5182



« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2016, 12:32:01 AM »



If what you say is true, (SPOILER ALERT!) then why wasn't Ezra's new saber turning red while he was using the dark side after finding the Sith holocron?




Gundam is an anime franchise that kicked up 2 years after SW. One of the legacy weapon technologies that spans the various series is an energy weapon known as a beam saber.



It depends on if the Kyber Crystal was new or salvaged.  Once a Kyber crystal takes a color it doesn't change..at least that is the going theory. Have yet to see conformation on that.  Bur perhaps light will be shed after the Ahsoka novel is released soon, it will detail her obtaining her new  lightsabers. 


I know WHAT Gundam is. I just never watched it as I am not that into giant robots..with a few exceptions.
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