Random Star Wars Thoughts

[James Casey]

Do the Sith need more of a motivation than 'Rule the galaxy'? I mean, not a city or a country or a planet... The entire galaxy. The power of life and death over trillions upon trillions of living beings all under their command. Absolute power.

Anyway, I'm not even sure the Sith are named as such in the OT - Vader and the Emperor are Force users who call on the Dark Side, while the light side is never specifically named in the OT either. It's enough to know that they've corrupted the Force, and everything else is secondary in terms of their motivation.

I think, in a lot of ways, we've been spoiled by the Expanded Universe, which can dig far, far deeper then the movies ever could. To read about Darth Bane and the Brotherhood of the Sith makes for a huge shift in the reader's perception of the Force, I think - but you don't need to know about all that to enjoy the films. It's enough to know that they're part of a secretive order, opposed to the Jedi and set on ruling the galaxy. It's storytelling shorthand - the detailed why and how aren't needed in a story that (in terms of Episode IV, at least) is all about the hero's journey.

[BenPass]

You're stupid popularised Sith are the emo dudes, not the Banite Order.

If you want to be taken seriously in your defence of anything, or if you hope to make an intelligent argument, you should learn not to begin your post with the words, "you're stupid". Insulting someone for disagreeing with you or holding counter views is not the way to have an intelligent, respectful discussion. I had considered ignoring this post and continuing to browse through the forum, but that kind of attitude is not warranted or appreciated and needed to be addressed.

[chicago.jedi]

I really do not mind if someone wants to root for the bad guys....to each their own. But I can not and will not pretend that the Sith are anything but that.  

Let's call a spade a spade here....Anakin killed children. What more argument of the Sith's character is necessary?

[kewlkev360]

They already did this with Sidious. He was the ultimate Sith; the great successor to Bane's line. I'm not sure you could do the same thing all over again and try to pass it off as new. Eventually, you can't S(no)oze your way around the galaxy forever, coexisting. They're the Sith, with the ultimate goal of destroying the Jedi and ruling the galaxy. They're not parasites.

Sidious was nowhere near the ultimate Sith.  The ultimate Sith was the Sith'ari, which is Bane.  Sidious was just the last guy in the Sith line and the time was right for the Jedi and the Republic to fall. Sidious broke the Rule of Two, by never really training his "apprentices" to replace him.  He intended to rule the Empire forever, never being usurped by anyone, Sith or otherwise.  Several EU novels depict this, especially Darth Plageuis and the books after Reurn of the Jedi.

[chicago.jedi]

Now that the dust has settled and the smoke has cleared, let’s take a moment to reflect….

We all have our preferences when it comes to Star Wars characters. That is the beauty of the Star Wars universe, there is something in it for everyone. These Sith vs Jedi arguments get particularly heated because, hey, we are all human and those who post on this forum are passionate about Star Wars. I find is amazing that we do get so passionate about Star Wars and this is a credit to Uncle George’s creation. It stirs up feelings in us and that is want a good story and good characters are supposed to do.

For reasons deep inside of each of us, we choose a side in the Force. Others choose different sides and we may never agree. We are all too deeply rooted in our beliefs so arguing will gain nothing.

The Force is truly strong with this group…..whichever side of it each of us choose to align with.

[Lord Krankenhaus]

Now that the dust has settled and the smoke has cleared, let’s take a moment to reflect….

We all have our preferences when it comes to Star Wars characters. That is the beauty of the Star Wars universe, there is something in it for everyone. These Sith vs Jedi arguments get particularly heated because, hey, we are all human and those who post on this forum are passionate about Star Wars. I find is amazing that we do get so passionate about Star Wars and this is a credit to Uncle George’s creation. It stirs up feelings in us and that is want a good story and good characters are supposed to do.

For reasons deep inside of each of us, we choose a side in the Force. Others choose different sides and we may never agree. We are all too deeply rooted in our beliefs so arguing will gain nothing.

The Force is truly strong with this group…..whichever side of it each of us choose to align with.

Well said that was, hmm!

[Xaeyon]

If you want to be taken seriously in your defence of anything, or if you hope to make an intelligent argument, you should learn not to begin your post with the words, "you're stupid". Insulting someone for disagreeing with you or holding counter views is not the way to have an intelligent, respectful discussion. I had considered ignoring this post and continuing to browse through the forum, but that kind of attitude is not warranted or appreciated and needed to be addressed.

WOW, I'm really sorry guys! I meant "your" not "you're". I wasn't meant to call anyone stupid. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone; it was meant to describe the emo sith that have become popular of late, THEY are the stupid sith. I'm sorry my grammar wasn't as tight as it usually is.

[Luna]

I see Malgus as being ancient. Part of the Sith when being a Sith Lord meant something, as you put it.

I think you misunderstood my post.

I stated that the ancient aspect should remain mysterious.

I was referring to real-life chronography, not SW chronology. My point was that recently (IRL), representations of Sith have become poor. This includes most (if not all) representations of ancient Sith.

I have no further thoughts on the subject but I wanted to clarify my standpoint.

[Master Rel]

You're stupid popularised Sith are the emo dudes, not the Banite Order.

And when I say "do justice", I mean justice in their explanation and backstory. The Sith in ANH are just there (in fact, the whole OT, the Sith are never explained beyond "they hate the Jedi and destroyed us, now we must destroy them because they are evil"); in tPM, the Sith meet on a rooftop and discuss finally (WFT?) destroying the Jedi, do some battle and get chopped in half; in AotC, nothing is related to the Sith until the very end when Dooku and Sidious are finally seen together; and in RotS, even when Anakin is converted doesn't really give a good reason why the Sith Order is the way it is.

The Sith are the bad guys in the movie because all we know about them is that they are what the protagonist is struggling against. Uncle Lucas had some good ideas but could never tell a story quite right; the Sith have no exposition in the movies. It's not good enough to throw a villain in there and say he's bad because the good guy needs to fight someone. The movies never say what the Sith are, what they stand for, why they are the way they are; they are only defined by what the protagonist needs to fight.
I'm not saying make the Sith the protagonist, I'm just saying that they need a reason to be, and a reason to keep going. The EU in necessary to fill in all the character motivations lacking from Lucas' films.

Make a post that is not what you want to read and you call me stupid?

That is a good one.

Uncle Lucus can't tell a story quite right...millions of fans would disagree.

But hey what do I know?  Apparently I am stupid.

Good one.

Being that this is a friendly and family safe site that promotes good feelings and warm fuzzies for all, I will refrain from a much warranted and deserved backhand return to that serve.

Looking with hindsight, could nearly any movie be better in a particular aspect if a certain consideration was made different?  Sure maybe.

That there should have been more screen time and story percentage dedicated to sith is an interesting thought.  But they were relegated to roles with basic, simple, and yes I will say it stupid stories and methods because the movies were meant to support the heroes.

But hey Disney has the reigns now, maybe there will be a more satisfying sith back story and character motivation with the upcoming movies.

PS
PM me next time you want to sling insults, this way I can respond in a more appropriate manner.

WOW, I'm really sorry guys! I meant "your" not "you're". I wasn't meant to call anyone stupid. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone; it was meant to describe the emo sith that have become popular of late, THEY are the stupid sith. I'm sorry my grammar wasn't as tight as it usually is.

Guess I took too long to post a response lol.

Yes agreed, emo sith are sad and stupid character profiles.

[Xaeyon]

Yes agreed, emo sith are sad and stupid character profiles.

Thank you, this is what I meant. I'm so very sorry for any offence; I truly did not mean it like it was read.

[Master Rel]

Thank you, this is what I meant. I'm so very sorry for any offence; I truly did not mean it like it was read.

No worries!

It was fairly harmless but I kept the response up so some of our newer members did not get all crazy and think it would be ok to start flaming each other for grins 

It is all good in the hood!

[chicago.jedi]

This most recent bout of Jedi vs Sith has got me thinking a lot. I am not trying to reopen the debate, just throw out a few musings. This is not so much a random thought as it is a deep thought….

I liked Star Wars when it was simple.

When I was growing up, I lived and breathed Star Wars. I was bullied a lot as a child and so Star Wars was my escape to a world of heroes I could emulate. The universe was easy to understand, black and white. There were good guys and bad guys. And yes, I said bad guys.
 
Everything about the Empire was specifically designed to depict them as evil. The Stormtroopers helmets are supposed to give the suggestion of a skull. Vader’s helmet is modeled after the stahlhelm. The ships are large and imposing. Their main weapon is called the Death Star. In the 1980’s, there was not much question about who played what role in that story. Star Wars was a space aged fairy tale of good verses evil.

You had some depth to the story. Han Solo was the edgy character but turned out to be the scoundrel with the heart of gold. Vader was the ultimate bad guy who redeems himself at the end. I still think about his find words to Luke, “You were right about me,” referencing Luke’s feeling that there was still a little bit of good in his father. Vader did not try to justify his actions. He did not try to say that he was really just misunderstood or that Luke had misinterpreted him. I always took it that at the end of ROTJ, the Force had forgiven Anakin. In the original version of the film, with Sebastian Shaw, I always saw a bit of humility on Anakin’s face as he stood with Yoda and Obi Wan.

Along come the EU, video games, prequels, and the altered versions of the original films. Now we have a backstory for everything. Literally everything. Look up anyone or anything on wookieepedia and there is a full write up about it. The EU has filled in the backstory so much as to be counterproductive to the best part of Star Wars, its simplicity and innocence.
 
The Star Wars universe has become a Quentin Tarantino like universe in which the good guys are bad, the bad guys are good, and nothing is what it seems. Perhaps this is a sign of the times; the jaded and cynical world that we live in. But in my opinion, the world we live in is all the more reason to keep Star Wars the way it was.  It has gone from being a fantasy that can inspire us to a thinly veiled model of our own world.


I do not know why this little anecdote comes to my mind but it seems relevant so I will share it….

I have mentioned that I used to be involved with WWII reenacting. I portrayed an American infantryman. There were guys who preferred to dress like the Axis powers and I will admit that that side had some cool gear and much more stylish uniforms. There was definitely an aesthetic appeal to them as well as a taboo appeal.

One weekend I found myself at an event called a tactical battle. This is an event that is not open to the public. There were no displays, no choreographed battle for the public. It was an event for the re-enactors to play war games. This particular tactical event was very much lopsided in favor of the Allies. There just were not that many Axis re-enactors that showed up for some reason. I was asked by a few guys if I would trade sides, just for the purposes of the battle. I figured, why not? They changed out my helmet, coat, kit and rifle. It seemed cool at the time. The very first encounter changed my mind.

I was dug in well near a curve in the road. I was well camouflaged and I saw the Americans coming before they saw me. I had them. I drew down on the first soldier…and I could not pull the trigger. There was something that bothered me about pointing a firearm (even though it was full of blanks and this was all part of the “game”) at an American soldier. I made noise so that they saw me and let myself be “shot,” then never returned to the battlefield.

What bothered me was that I was an American soldier, a reservist. I never fought in a war. I am not a veteran. I never did anything significant. I was not even really an outstanding soldier at that. I was just one in the crowd. One of many reservists. But I still could not bring myself to commit an act of violence, even mock violence, against one of my own.

The moral of this story is I believe that there is a point where make-believe becomes too real and requires us to reevaluate it.

Thanks for listening. Have a good weekend, Saber Forum.  

May the Force be with us.

[Deceptae]

Excelent point Jedi of Chicago. I never stopped to think about things from a conserviave standpoint. The straightforwardness is probably what resonated with me and kept me interested enough to sit still long enough to watch the ot as a youngling. But being only 4 when tpm came about seeing a much more action oriented side of this magical saga of space-wizards and laser-weapons really dug the hook in deep.

[Jammo]

I suppose the thing I always notice about the Jedi path for me is that it is about choice and the real bad guy is never external, but rather the monster you could become. That's where I've gone with it in recent years. Your war in Star Wars is always you, be it those light/dark moments in a video game or something more real where you try to live as a Jedi. I guess I also read too much Zen swordsman type stuff too, but that kind of shapes this view. I try to be the sword that gives more than it takes in my own participation in the universe, ready to bring battle to the doorstep of evil but never willing to resort to evil for my ends, even if my intentions are good.

[Darth Severus]

This most recent bout of Jedi vs Sith has got me thinking a lot. I am not trying to reopen the debate, just throw out a few musings. This is not so much a random thought as it is a deep thought….

I liked Star Wars when it was simple.

When I was growing up, I lived and breathed Star Wars. I was bullied a lot as a child and so Star Wars was my escape to a world of heroes I could emulate. The universe was easy to understand, black and white. There were good guys and bad guys. And yes, I said bad guys.
 
Everything about the Empire was specifically designed to depict them as evil. The Stormtroopers helmets are supposed to give the suggestion of a skull. Vader’s helmet is modeled after the stahlhelm. The ships are large and imposing. Their main weapon is called the Death Star. In the 1980’s, there was not much question about who played what role in that story. Star Wars was a space aged fairy tale of good verses evil.

You had some depth to the story. Han Solo was the edgy character but turned out to be the scoundrel with the heart of gold. Vader was the ultimate bad guy who redeems himself at the end. I still think about his find words to Luke, “You were right about me,” referencing Luke’s feeling that there was still a little bit of good in his father. Vader did not try to justify his actions. He did not try to say that he was really just misunderstood or that Luke had misinterpreted him. I always took it that at the end of ROTJ, the Force had forgiven Anakin. In the original version of the film, with Sebastian Shaw, I always saw a bit of humility on Anakin’s face as he stood with Yoda and Obi Wan.

Along come the EU, video games, prequels, and the altered versions of the original films. Now we have a backstory for everything. Literally everything. Look up anyone or anything on wookieepedia and there is a full write up about it. The EU has filled in the backstory so much as to be counterproductive to the best part of Star Wars, its simplicity and innocence.
 
The Star Wars universe has become a Quentin Tarantino like universe in which the good guys are bad, the bad guys are good, and nothing is what it seems. Perhaps this is a sign of the times; the jaded and cynical world that we live in. But in my opinion, the world we live in is all the more reason to keep Star Wars the way it was.  It has gone from being a fantasy that can inspire us to a thinly veiled model of our own world.


I do not know why this little anecdote comes to my mind but it seems relevant so I will share it….

I have mentioned that I used to be involved with WWII reenacting. I portrayed an American infantryman. There were guys who preferred to dress like the Axis powers and I will admit that that side had some cool gear and much more stylish uniforms. There was definitely an aesthetic appeal to them as well as a taboo appeal.

One weekend I found myself at an event called a tactical battle. This is an event that is not open to the public. There were no displays, no choreographed battle for the public. It was an event for the re-enactors to play war games. This particular tactical event was very much lopsided in favor of the Allies. There just were not that many Axis re-enactors that showed up for some reason. I was asked by a few guys if I would trade sides, just for the purposes of the battle. I figured, why not? They changed out my helmet, coat, kit and rifle. It seemed cool at the time. The very first encounter changed my mind.

I was dug in well near a curve in the road. I was well camouflaged and I saw the Americans coming before they saw me. I had them. I drew down on the first soldier…and I could not pull the trigger. There was something that bothered me about pointing a firearm (even though it was full of blanks and this was all part of the “game”) at an American soldier. I made noise so that they saw me and let myself be “shot,” then never returned to the battlefield.

What bothered me was that I was an American soldier, a reservist. I never fought in a war. I am not a veteran. I never did anything significant. I was not even really an outstanding soldier at that. I was just one in the crowd. One of many reservists. But I still could not bring myself to commit an act of violence, even mock violence, against one of my own.

The moral of this story is I believe that there is a point where make-believe becomes too real and requires us to reevaluate it.

Thanks for listening. Have a good weekend, Saber Forum.  

May the Force be with us.

I understand and don't all at the same time. I play some Axis and Allies, and you have to play the Axis side, in fact its the fun side, you act first you control the action, you get to dictate the course of battle. The men I play with I've won both sides but the Axis is the most fun, you get to be the person you could never by in real life.

Different people have a different level of belief they can suspend. Some can't play a Sith, some can't watch Avatar for more then 5 minutes. I understand where you are coming from Chicago, I  don't believe as you believe but I understand what your saying.