Epic Debate Battles of Geek History!

[TheHobbitofDune]

The title says it all. At the very least, it does the bulk of the work.

This is our very own Saber Forum debate thread in which one forumite shall go up against another forumite in heated discussion about a certain topic, whether that be movies, video games, books, etc.

The rules are as follows:

1. Two forumites to one debate. No teams. We may change it up in the future, but for now, let's just see how this goes.

2. The positions are first come, first serve. Just say which side you want to be on, and if someone hasn't posted before you, then you're gold.

3. Each debater shall have a total of five posts to present their case. Once your five posts are up, you're done. We may expand this to more than one round per debate, but for now, let's just refer to the end of rule #1.

4. There is no word limit. I repeat, there is no word limit. However, please be considerate with your posts. Check for typos, keep your paragraphs neat and concise, etc., just like you would if this were a regular online conversation.

5. The rest of the community shall vote for the winner. Simply send your decision to me via PM, and I shall tally the results and make the announcement. There will be a deadline, however, so please keep that in mind.

6. Yes, the debaters can vote for themselves, or for their opponent.

7. The winner of the debate shall decide on the next two subjects for debate.

8. Please do not pick something that might be obscure to many people. If you think it will be, then it probably is. At the same time, NO RULE BREAKING. Do so and I will have Manny visit you in your sleep, and the result won't be pretty.

This thread is in the 'Forum Games' section for a reason. Let's keep it clean and mature, but most of all, let's have some fun with it, and let us raise all the interesting and/or insightful points our nerd brains have to offer us.

Finally, if there is a rule I have neglected to mention that you think I should put up, please let me know right away before the 'edit' option dissapears for good.

[TheHobbitofDune]

Round 1

The Matrix

VS.

Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope

BEGIN!

[Master Rel]

Hobbit, on thought before this gets off the ground, a debate by the very nature demands a point and counter point.  Sweet or salty, hot or cold, Jedi or sith, Vader or Obi Wan, etc.

At least for me Matrix and New Hope are on level playing fields as far as interest goes.  Both are the first film in their collection, both hold people's interest for being original, etc.

It may just be me, but the initial pairing should present some measure of instant conflict or there is nothing to debate.

But this sounds like a fun thread!

Yay debate teams!  Nerds unite!

[Jev Moldara]

On the topic of the first debate... What exactly are we debating? Which one would win in a fight? Which one had the better Chosen One? Which one is more popular?

[TheHobbitofDune]

Anything.

The reason why I chose those two is because of what Rel said. When I was coming up with stuff to get the ball rolling, I felt like this would be a good one since they're both so similar. The questions I originally had in mind were along the lines of "which movie was the most original?"; "The most influential?"; "Which one had the better story and characters?" Things of that nature.

But if people want to change it, that's okay too. I understand why they might want to

[Master Rel]

Both are good topics, just not really a topic of debate.

All debates ask a question, and then provide a platform for two sides to offer different opinions, and thus a debate.

Example...

Q: We all need to eat, but what is better...to cook at home or go out to eat?

One side is the stay at home and cook...the other is the go out to eat.

Advantages, disadvantages, etc.

So note a question...like who is the best physical specimen, Capt America or Master Chief?  The battle lines are drawn right off the bat.

That sort of thing.

[srams]

I love the starwars universe. Hands down it is my favorite sci fi universe. Though the matrix has a place in my heart too. The matrix made us question our own reality. Starwars didn't really do that... but starwars has lightsaber and the force... though I guess one could compare Neo to a Jedi in a way... the matrix had such a classic heroes quest from anti hero to martyr. Starwars had a very similar tale but with a nasty twist... the "hero" turned evil and his son took over. I love how extensive and vastly interesting SW is vs the matrix... the matrix's time line is very short compared to SW.   But matrix had really cool crazy crap, where you can learn kung fu in lie three seconds. Lightsaber vs learning anything in three seconds... that's a tough choice...

[TheHobbitofDune]

That was unexpected. lol.

*hits backspace button*

Well, in that case... which side do you want, srams?

[Xaeyon]

From the title, I thought it was going to be something like "Who would win in a fight: Achilles vs Heracles; Is Archimedes wily enough to see through the The Trojan Horse; can Socrates beat up Plato; ..."

But this is cool too I like me a good debate

And I also agree with Rel, there needs to be a specific playing field... I like Jev's "which had a better Chosen One?" (Vader goes through his ups and downs, and Neo has to discover himself in a world of finite definitions)


I'm up for this debate if the other side hasn't been taken (depending on what srams wants to debate for)

[TheHobbitofDune]

Thanks for the help, guys

Alright, with all of that taken into consideration, I'm going to change it to...

Matrix vs. Star Wars

"Which had a better Chosen One?"

Thomas Anderson/Neo vs. Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader

The reason why I'm including two for each is because they both represent different stages in each character's evolution, and thus I felt that it would be appropriate to have a debate that can encompass all sides of both characters.

In any case, I do hope that this will satisfy all parties involved.

Thanks again

[Xaeyon]

Awesome work, Hobbie. One last suggestion to the rules: #9 - No talking smack about the opposing side. The gentlemanly debate may only consist of point and counterpoint; rebuttal may be made, but you cannot bring up anything that hasn't already been brought to light by the side supporting the other side.


With that, I guess I'll take Mr Anderson to start the debate then, shall I


Neo is the better Chosen One because he is more relatable to the audiences of the movie. Forget the power and destiny he is supposed to assume, and it comes down to a crisis of identity. Neo/Anderson struggles to find something to believe in when his world is turned upside down, and is forced to come to terms with taking control of his own life rather than be guided by destiny.

At the beginning of the movie he follows the guiding hands of fate (white rabbit, Morpheus, Trinity, etc.), and by the end he is spearheading the effort to save Morpheus. He follows his own path to see the world in a different way. Only when he takes control of his own destiny is he the Chosen One. He stands tall and fights Agent Smith toe-to-toe.

At the same time that Neo is forging his own path, his antagonist (Agent Smith) has a mirrored journey of selfdiscovery and the seizing of identity.  In the beginning he is an Agent of the Matrix, then he takes control of his own path in pursuit of Neo.

[TheHobbitofDune]

I like that rule a lot Thank you.

*takes a seat, leans back, munches on popcorn*

[Kresnik]

I couldn't argue this topic because it hurts my brain.

Anakin really wasn't the chosen one " I thought you were the chosen one" cuts legs off later ...

I would say it should be Neo vs Luke as I believe Luke brought more of a balance until the damn Vong

[TheHobbitofDune]

Yeah, but Anakin did fulfill the prophecy when he killed Sidious. It's just that it took a little while... lol.

Plus, Luke and Neo are very similar. I figured it would be best if we didn't go that route *cough* REL!!! *cough*

[Kresnik]

But he didn't "bring balance" he went from dark side to semi dark side to semi light side ...

I see Luke fulfilling more of the prophecy by how he himself he was not completely light side ... In the EU it is obvious that Luke starts to get away from the strict sense of Jedi = Always "good" vs Sith = all "bad" when he does his training and his new order.

He accepts former dark siders and what not ... Luke seems to have brought the balance more than strictly sith vs strictly jedi