Was Rey using Form 2 (Makashi) when fighting Kylo Ren?

[ThreadJack]

It was definitely channeling the ESB fight with Luke vs. Vader, but in this case the villain wasn't necessarily a master.  I wouldn't attach any Forms to this fight, since it's pretty clear that Kylo Ren had minimal training with a lightsaber.  He had a bit of experience and was fighting more on raw instinct, which was Rey's approach as well (minus the rage).

Oh, and I definitely hope she keeps the graflex... it would be awesome.

I noticed that as well when I saw it again yesterday. He seemed to fight like I and I'd imagine the average forum members does. He clearly knows how to use a saber, and is comfortable handling it, but doesn't have any true training or actual fighting style. Everything he does he does because it seems good at the time.

[Connah]

when he wasn't playing lumberjack I spotted a few long sword moves in Kylo's fighting. Rey was, as said earlier, doing a zorro "point end in the other guy"

[Darth Logos]

This thought dawned on me today...

There has been a lot of conversation about Rey's fighting ability and how she could do what she did with no training.  Remember what happened when she found BB-8?  She was able to fend off a mounted creature using only a knife.  But, they clearly knew each other, based on her dialogue, and he wanted nothing to do with her.  Perhaps her fighting abilities were a bit more well known that we think.  Kind of like how Obi-Wan scares off the Tusken Raiders by just showing up.  They knew of what Anakin did to one of their entire tribes, and they didn't want to mess with him.  The jedi's reputation preceded Obi-Wan, just like Rey's reputation preceded her.

Just a thought.

The first half is an excellent hypothesis. Although, Obi-Wan didn't scare them off by just showing up. He used the Force to mimic the cry of a krayt dragon. I think that noise is more than enough to make any Tatooine local run first and ask questions later. Also, I don't think anyone survived the "Skywalker Massacre".

when he wasn't playing lumberjack I spotted a few long sword moves in Kylo's fighting. Rey was, as said earlier, doing a zorro "point end in the other guy"

"Do you know how to use that?"
"Yeah. Pointy end goes into the other man."

[Jev Moldara]

The first half is an excellent hypothesis. Although, Obi-Wan didn't scare them off by just showing up. He used the Force to mimic the cry of a krayt dragon. I think that noise is more than enough to make any Tatooine local run first and ask questions later. Also, I don't think anyone survived the "Skywalker Massacre".

"Do you know how to use that?"
"Yeah. Pointy end goes into the other man."

Beat you to it...

http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=26818.msg399329#msg399329

[Darth Logos]

Beat you to it...

http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?topic=26818.msg399329#msg399329

And so it has come full circle.

[Landen Se-Sentien]

The first half is an excellent hypothesis. Although, Obi-Wan didn't scare them off by just showing up. He used the Force to mimic the cry of a krayt dragon. I think that noise is more than enough to make any Tatooine local run first and ask questions later. Also, I don't think anyone survived the "Skywalker Massacre".

I agree about the Krayt Dragon, but also, remember how the jawas jumped when they saw Luke as he and Owen were picking out droids?  I think the legend/story/lore survived the massacre, even if no one else did, and the fear got transferred to Obi-Wan and Luke, due to their backgrounds.  After all, someone had to discover the camp and realize what happened.  The locals were afraid of the Krayt Dragon, yes, but they were also afraid of the jedi, and they knew who Obi-Wan and Luke were.

[Darth Logos]

I agree about the Krayt Dragon, but also, remember how the jawas jumped when they saw Luke as he and Owen were picking out droids?  I think the legend/story/lore survived the massacre, even if no one else did, and the fear got transferred to Obi-Wan and Luke, due to their backgrounds.  After all, someone had to discover the camp and realize what happened.  The locals were afraid of the Krayt Dragon, yes, but they were also afraid of the jedi, and they knew who Obi-Wan and Luke were.

I just always assumed Jawas were jumpy by nature, as well as from usually being up to sticky-fingered no good.

[Landen Se-Sentien]

I just always assumed Jawas were jumpy by nature, as well as from usually being up to sticky-fingered no good.

Both points are probably true, but Lucas makes it a point to show them jump and flee when Luke arrives.  They don't do that any other time.  That has to be an intentional point that, to me, was clarified and exposited in AOTC.  That was one of my first thoughts when seeing the massacre scene.  "That's why the Tusken Raiders  and jawas flee in the presence of a jedi."  And, Anakin used the jawas to help find the camp.  So, I imagine they figured it out, too.  It was one of the more subtle points of the prequels that I thought he (Lucas) nailed.

[Darth Logos]

Both points are probably true, but Lucas makes it a point to show them jump and flee when Luke arrives.  They don't do that any other time.  That has to be an intentional point that, to me, was clarified and exposited in AOTC.  That was one of my first thoughts when seeing the massacre scene.  "That's why the Tusken Raiders  and jawas flee in the presence of a jedi."  And, Anakin used the jawas to help find the camp.  So, I imagine they figured it out, too.  It was one of the more subtle points of the prequels that I thought he (Lucas) nailed.

Touché.

However, it's kind of a chicken-egg thing. In the OT, especially ANH, they present the Force as an elective ability. As though Luke's parentage had no bearing on his ability to use the Force. Similar to how Finn radically suggests using the Force to free Rey. (Great seen BTW) "You must learn the ways of the Force, if you're to come with me, to Alderaan." This line makes it sound that like all Luke has to do is study and...Bam...insta-Jedi.

I believe that the EU and prequels established later that it's something you're born with. Although I hated the concept of the midichlorians <wretch> I understood the need for a device that could be quantified and equated to "strength" in the Force. I give credit that Lucas may have been trying to hint that Luke was Force sensitive, but I highly doubt that he knew how far this thing would go, considering that he made ANH as a stand-alone film.

I still say Jawas are just jumpy. Like Chihuahuas.

[ThreadJack]

Yeah Jawas are neurotic in general.

As far as the fight goes, I noticed Rey's technique was mostly stab, run, stab, run. Kylo's was mostly angry slashing and blocking Rey's stabs and jabs. It almost seemed like an untrained rookie vs a Novice with SOME training(though I suspect some of this goes back to Ren's previous injury.). It'll be interesting to see how a fight between them turns out after they both have a bit of training.

[Landen Se-Sentien]

Touché.

However, it's kind of a chicken-egg thing. In the OT, especially ANH, they present the Force as an elective ability. As though Luke's parentage had no bearing on his ability to use the Force. Similar to how Finn radically suggests using the Force to free Rey. (Great seen BTW) "You must learn the ways of the Force, if you're to come with me, to Alderaan." This line makes it sound that like all Luke has to do is study and...Bam...insta-Jedi.

I believe that the EU and prequels established later that it's something you're born with. Although I hated the concept of the midichlorians <wretch> I understood the need for a device that could be quantified and equated to "strength" in the Force. I give credit that Lucas may have been trying to hint that Luke was Force sensitive, but I highly doubt that he knew how far this thing would go, considering that he made ANH as a stand-alone film.

I still say Jawas are just jumpy. Like Chihuahuas.

I agree with the chicken and egg analogy. I just wonder how much Lucas used the OT to setup things for the prequels. For example, did he watch individual scenes and ask, "Why/how did that happen?" In this case, did he (or other writers) ask the questioms, "Why would those creatures react at the sight of the jedi?" If he was looking to fill the gap and answer those questions, then I think the massacre scene makes sense both in Anakin's turn to the dark side and connecting it to those scenes in ANH.  Again, we only see them reaction when Luke appears. I once heard an author say that when describing a scene, you don't mention the shotgun over the mantle unless someone takes it and blows someone else away with it.  That particular scene just seems too intentional of a cut, to me.

[Darth Logos]

I agree with the chicken and egg analogy. I just wonder how much Lucas used the OT to setup things for the prequels. For example, did he watch individual scenes and ask, "Why/how did that happen?" In this case, did he (or other writers) ask the questioms, "Why would those creatures react at the sight of the jedi?" If he was looking to fill the gap and answer those questions, then I think the massacre scene makes sense both in Anakin's turn to the dark side and connecting it to those scenes in ANH.  Again, we only see them reaction when Luke appears. I once heard an author say that when describing a scene, you don't mention the shotgun over the mantle unless someone takes it and blows someone else away with it.  That particular scene just seems too intentional of a cut, to me.

Personally I think you're looking too deep into the behavior of Jawas, but to each their own.

However, this is the aspect of why I believe that SW belongs to the fans and not LF or Disney. Nerds like us that desperately try to iron out any wrinkles in continuity. This is the biggest reason I was so bent out of shape about the EU purge. There was a lot of hard work that went into creating the Original Canon (shall hence forth be referred to as the OC), and for Disney to just throw it all away instead of properly grooming it is an outright kick in the balls.

[Jev Moldara]

Personally I think you're looking too deep into the behavior of Jawas, but to each their own.

However, this is the aspect of why I believe that SW belongs to the fans and not LF or Disney. Nerds like us that desperately try to iron out any wrinkles in continuity. This is the biggest reason I was so bent out of shape about the EU purge. There was a lot of hard work that went into creating the Original Canon (shall hence forth be referred to as the OC), and for Disney to just throw it all away instead of properly grooming it is an outright kick in the balls.

Well, I can see them purging post-RotJ, as they wanted to tell an all new story. It makes sense because watching a movie based on a series of books would create an all new set of problems (i.e. - "Why did they change this?" and "They left this part out which would have been really awesome.").

However, where they went wrong, in my opinion, is the purging of pre-movie and concurrent stuff.

In my mind, Revan and The Exile will ALWAYS be canon.

[Darth Logos]

Well, I can see them purging post-RotJ, as they wanted to tell an all new story. It makes sense because watching a movie based on a series of books would create an all new set of problems (i.e. - "Why did they change this?" and "They left this part out which would have been really awesome.").

However, where they went wrong, in my opinion, is the purging of pre-movie and concurrent stuff.

In my mind, Revan and The Exile will ALWAYS be canon.

I heartily agree with this. The Bane trilogy was awesome. And Plagueis, and Cloak of Deception. And nothing holds a torch to TFU. But they could cut out the 2nd one. NTM, SWTOR is still very active online, has that been made "legend" as well?

I think they would be very smart to revise the parameters of the purge to only include post ROTJ and anything that just doesn't have a good fit in the continuity of the established canon. Like SW Demolition. (Old PS1 Twisted-Metal-esque game based on the SW univ.) The story behind it made no sense despite it being fun.

[Darth Justicar]

I guess I am not that bent out of shape over it, especially since I am a somewhat newer fan and not as attached to the EU.  Then again I also come from a Star Trek background where the idea of parallel universes is not a problem for me, so I tend to just shrug at reboots, changes in canon, etc., with the thought of, "OK, divergent timeline created...new place for me to play!"  I respect that not everybody approaches it the same way in either fandom, though.