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Author Topic: !!! Warning Spoiler Alert !!! The Ep. 8 Topic !!! Warning Spoiler Alert !!!  (Read 41171 times)
Layana
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« Reply #60 on: December 19, 2017, 09:08:21 PM »

A good, solid film. It didn't get me as much as TFA got me, though.
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Obese Wan Kenobese
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« Reply #61 on: December 19, 2017, 10:10:26 PM »

Yup. This...
https://www.dailywire.com/news/24773/star-wars-last-jedi-full-shapiro-review-ben-shapiro
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« Reply #62 on: December 19, 2017, 10:26:49 PM »


Some of those are pretty much bullshell, sorry.
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« Reply #63 on: December 20, 2017, 12:19:46 AM »

Huh, just got out of the cinema room and to avoid writing another Balzac-novel-long wall of text I'd rather not even start it Smiley
However a couple of things I can not avoid to mention:
1. Poor Kylo Ren cosplayers, I guess we'll see a lot of helmets up on e-bay for nuts Smiley
2. All those fans spent 2 years creating conspiracy theories about who Snoke was, well, bin them, irrelevant...

Luke's character was just brilliant. And no, I still am not willing to talk about the flying Leia.
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« Reply #64 on: December 20, 2017, 01:09:20 AM »

So I saw The Last Jedi a couple of days ago and overall I am as yet not fully decided if I like it or not. It has been interesting to read what other people have thought but here is my take on it.

Firstly Luke, I can accept him living as a hermit on an island that is an ancient Jedi temple surrounded by the equivalents of puffins and seals. That makes sense he has served his major purpose and is to an extent redundant with his post ROTJ actions seemingly causing more harm than good. I find it difficult to accept that the same person who could sense the good in Vader and went to such extremes to save him (surrendering and going before the Emperor) could turn around and consider murdering his nephew in his sleep to pre-empt him going to the darkside. His long-distance fight with Kylo Ren was very good. His death either as a result of exertion or it was simply his time has me undecided. I suspect we might get some more context to it when we see him as a force ghost (the third lesson).

Leia, not keen on the whole spacewalk thing but can overlook it. The rest of the film, mostly an exercise in passing the baton which is ok. Pity about poor old Akbar etc.

Rey I can find no major problems here, it’s not really clear about her parents, possibly there is more to it. The force may work in mysterious ways but her proximity to the map to find Luke in TFA could be more than coincidental. I can’t remember the exact words Yoda used to luke about Rey having all she needed but Yoda knew she had the books/as well as courage etc and Luke no longer needed the books for the wisdom he required.

Finn/Rose, a wasted journey but without it we would be stuck between the fleeing cruiser and the Island scenes which are already drawn out enough. I suppose being charitable it gives a broader view of the Galaxys political climate and shows that you can’t always rely on sneaking into an Imperial base/ship/deathstar, flick a switch/ send a transmission/blow it up and it all work out fine. About time the Empire/First Order picked up on that. Rose saving Finn from flying into the gun did not work for me.

Poe, I really can’t warm to Poe as a character, although the attempted mutiny added a bit of interest. The concept of him learning to be an effective leader was a bit heavy handed in its telling.

Snoke, a bit disappointing not finding out more about him but I can live with that (just). He died like all the best Sith do (killed by his Apprentice) so no problem there.

 Kylo Ren, a very interesting development of his character. The role of ruler of the galaxy has fallen in his lap but really he seems more interested in finding his place in it. Interesting he didn’t pull the trigger on Leia. I think perhaps a more malevolent force (as yet unknown) will challenge him and he may ultimately go to the light side/resistance.

Holdo looks almost exactly like one of the managers at my work…very disturbing.

Hux, all good in one shot he looks very Tarkinesque but I couldn’t imagine Vader choking Tarkin or throwing him against a wall.

BB8 way too much saving the day, important to sell toys I guess.

So all in all I will have to watch it again, after I have watched TFA again (I didn’t like TFA and have only watched it once, it feels as much like Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings in places rather than Star Wars). I certainly don’t hate this movie (although I can see how Luke fans might) but it will never be a favourite either.
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Noctis
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« Reply #65 on: December 20, 2017, 04:39:01 AM »


I don't agree with 90% of these, but one of them in particular is extremely annoying.

Oh, jeez. Not the bomb thing again.  This can EASILY be explained.  If the bombs drop straight down like that?  Well.  This is Star Wars.  Do you think for a second they don't have some sort of device to ensure that anti-gravity is countered?  Because I'm pretty sure they do. I will never for the life of me understand why people start shouting about physics in a science fiction movie.  Remember, guys . . . . laser swords.   

The person who wrote this list sounds like they're offended that all of their personal fan headcanons didn't magically come to pass.     
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jedi Kai-gon
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« Reply #66 on: December 20, 2017, 09:25:54 AM »

TLJ certainly has its flaws, but I really enjoyed it. While I get that it is not for everyone, I am liking the new direction that Star Wars is going in.

I was never a big fan of Luke in the original trilogy, I found him to be quite a boring character to be honest. However, this movie has completely changed that and made him one of my favorites. Kylo Ren is as awesome as ever, and I really liked Finn and Rose. The only character that I am not a huge fan of is Rey, but even then I do not dislike her.

I could go on and on about everything in the movie, but that would take forever.

To sum it up I really like a movie that makes me think and tears down everything that I expected to happen, TLJ did just that. All in all it, along with Rouge One, are my favorite SW movies to date.  
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Layana
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« Reply #67 on: December 20, 2017, 04:27:09 PM »

A good read: https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/12/18/16791844/star-wars-last-jedi-backlash-controversy

"The Force Awakens was attacked for being too slavish to the old Star Wars movies; The Last Jedi is being attacked for not being slavish enough." Case rested.
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« Reply #68 on: December 20, 2017, 05:48:12 PM »

I took me a day but now can say I know why I feel how I feel about this movie.
Instead of being boosted like I had after Ep7 (regardless of its flaws) I feel that sneaky sadness what I usually have when something precious gets to the end.
I still like this episode, it is full of treasures but Disney makes these movies so out of the line that I barely recognize anything essential SW in them.

In the old trilogy there was such an in-depth, structural, very detailed and consistent universe built behind the movies that it became a saga. The prequels were no different: we saw for example what the Republic was, how the Sith infiltrated the whole setup through generating a civil war and there were a heap of very clever, very intelligent moves displayed in a beautiful rhythm so it was evident to take the whole concept and universe seriously.
Now that's all lost. I can say all because I don't see these script writers and directors having any insight of that consistency in their mind or if they do, they certainly do not respect them.

Here, after 2 episodes we have a First Order with no consistency at all (what happened to the Republic after the battle of Endor??), it's lead buy a Supreme Whoever who has no figure at all (however the acting behind I found to be brilliant) and a terribly shallow Hux who has nothing but a mouth foaming all the way down. And they chase a handful of guys called the Resistance who resist, no doubt, and fly anything made of metal they have in hand against any odds over and over again which is rather grotesque than heroic with no end. After 2 episodes they end up being enough to half-fill the Falcon, all the oldtimer heroes are out and I still don't know what this is for, what's the big picture, why shall I even care about these new and weightless figures took the whole fight over.

Rey is fine, she can be loved, a lot of things with her hard to explain if I keep to the consistency I so sorely miss now, Poe could be someone but still isn't, Finn totally went awry here, I'd just simply cut out 30-40 minutes of his total in TLJ as it means literally nothing, Kylo is there but he'll most probably not be enough with this characteristics to take the whole movie forward.

I love the movie however for how it's dealt with the old heroes: Luke has elevated to a real character now, that sort of spirituality he presented was very much needed to get the Force going in these new terms and thanks to that Rey also got a hint of the glory-effect no matter how extremely Disney destroys the consistency of what the Force is and isn't with regards to the 6 old episodes. I loved Han to turn up how he did in Ep7 and losing him was a blast the way we lost him, now Luke's exit was again shiny and loveable. You may hate me for this but I don't care about this Leia at all since Ep7 for a lot of reasons but that doesn't matter.
Now these are all gone and in return I don't feel I got interesting or exciting characters nor a consistency of the whole SW universe with that sparkling and clever intelligence of politics and games made the characters serious enough to look forward to the next episode. Ok, we have the Falcon and the two droids but no questions asked.
It's like an empty husk, a room where the dance ended and a few of them left behind to pack while there's no date for the next event...

Not sure if I was clear but I have so much in my mind I'm unable to translate to words on a different language than my own.
I'm happy that I saw this movie, I'll watch it again and again I'm sure because it was a blast to be among these old heroes and their lines but it's hard not to recognize that serious incompetency of the rest which makes the whole universe weightless and pointless in which characters are rather their own memes than fleshed out and interesting figures and the universe itself fell apart completely...

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« Reply #69 on: December 20, 2017, 06:58:55 PM »

I'm going to start off with something positive: (Shocking. I know)

The lightspeed ram is now in the candidacy for "Logos' All Time Favorite SW Scene". Just.......................................aaawwwwhuhuhhuhuhuhuh. So good.

Although I could still tear this movie a new one even at 4am and being dog tired, somehow I didn't actually hate it.

- I thought a gas crisis during a chase was a bit weak for the main plot. Pretty much, the whole Resistance side of the plot was weak. However, I did like seeing Finn throw down. But in the thirty seconds that expired from the end of the steaming pile to this film, after losing a substantial number of their forces on SKB, the FO comes back to bitch slap the Resistance and effectively win the fight, and now they're on clean-up duty?
- The hand-hand combat in this movie was pretty cool. Loved the finish of the throne room fight. I also liked how Ren iced Snoke. I also wasn't as disppointed with the praetorian guards as I thought I might be. At least we got to see these ones fight.
- Was supremely disappointed that we got no explanations of our mystery players' origins (Rey or Snoke, or Phasma for that matter), and now Snoke and Phasma are dead.
- I was initially excited to see Luke just brush off the barrage. I actually chimed in and said "That's how the Force works."
- Per usual, I loved seeing Del Toro show up. No matter how brief....or scoundrel-ly.
- Apparently I'm only allowed to like Poe for one scene per movie. His opening prank call to Hux was great. Played out a little too long, but great. Although, it does lend to my whole thing about weak villains making weak heroes. Why would the FO even listen to, or even bother responding to him? Shoot his black and orange ass down. You're already going to kill all Resistance members. Undecided
- Anybody else catch that despite the fleet showing up, only the biggest SD ever bothered shooting? <derp>
- Nox raised a good point with the bombs. I didn't initially catch it, but they could have used a low-power linear induction propulsion system to direct them in a straight line. (They more than likely didn't actually think of this, but c'est la vie. Leave it to the awesome fans to write in the details. Grin) What had me scratching the dome was "Why the hell would you have a bombardier in a bomb bay that is about to be opened up into SPACE?
- Speaking of space....the Leia scene. It was pretty well done, but I don't think she should have been able to last that long. 5 seconds tops, considering that space is considered the harshest environment known to mankind.
- I liked how they played Luke off as kind of an asshole. Chucks the Flex. Messes with Rey when getting her to "reach out".
- I loved the rotisserie style porg. Grin Dumbest thing about that scene was Chewie being guilt-tripped over eating them. Not killing them. Not cooking them. Just eating them. I was hopeful that they would play the role of hapless cannon fodder when "investigating" the Flex.
- I loved how they worked in the foul-mouthed R2 joke. (Everything he says gets bleeped out.)
- I actually loved the fact that I didn't have to stomach a useless throwback every 5 mins. And the throwbacks that were integrated I thought were tastefully done.
- Despite not being a fan of the character, I liked how they developed Kylo Ren in this movie. Still conflicted, but done taking Snoke's $#!%.
- Wasn't a big fan of the idea of Ren and Rey being more Force super-powers. It's played out.
- And finally...WTF was up with Luke just up and <poof> like that?
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« Reply #70 on: December 20, 2017, 07:56:31 PM »

Bombs. A rod at the top to push them straight down. Even just a slight nudge. Done.
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« Reply #71 on: December 20, 2017, 07:58:20 PM »

Bombs. A rod at the top to push them straight down. Even just a slight nudge. Done.
But a slight nudge would still require a significant amount of force to move that kind of tonnage.
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« Reply #72 on: December 20, 2017, 08:07:19 PM »

But a slight nudge would still require a significant amount of force to move that kind of tonnage.

Not in space.

But enough real world applications of real world physics in make believe movies. Or the zombies might come after me.
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« Reply #73 on: December 20, 2017, 08:33:13 PM »

Not in space.

But enough real world applications of real world physics in make believe movies. Or the zombies might come after me.
Newton's 1st law applies in space the same as it does in atmosphere. I'm not even going to get into how much the bomber's flight path would be shifted. Tongue

The problem is, if you get too far away from reality, people won't take it seriously. It may as well have been a cartoon.
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« Reply #74 on: December 20, 2017, 09:10:13 PM »

There was a lot to take in with this movie, but overall it was extremely enjoyable to watch.  Thematically, I enjoyed the subversion of expectations, which fits well with Kylo's "let the past die" philosophy.  There were nods to older SW films, but instead of being used for fanservice, they were used very specifically to set up these twists.

Having only seen it once, I'll give my list of pros and cons

PROS
- Kylo and Rey developing as Force Users and growing as characters together
- Jaded Luke, with his faith in the Jedi lost
- Leia's leadership
- Porgs
- Holdo and her badass self sacrifice
- KYLO AND REY VERSUS PRAETORIAN GUARD
- Luke showing his badassery by projecting himself with the Force, and ultimately sacrificing himself to help the rebels escape

CONS
- Pacing issues, particularly made worse by the Finn/Rose sideplot (which most people seem to dislike universally)
- Phasma being wasted again
- Finn's epic sacrifice being interrupted by Rose (just so Rose can be set up as a romantic interest)
- In general, I felt it was split too much between POV characters

UNDECIDED
- Snoke getting killed in such an anticlimactic way (GREAT twist, but I'm not sure how I feel about how easy it was)
- I like Rose as a character, but I felt she was given some weak material in this movie that compromised our first impressions
- As much as I loved Leia using the Force, the flying part was a little weird (might just be a visual issue)
- Kylo's helmet destruction - loved it as a character moment, but that helmet was so cool and iconic!

Overall, a very fun movie.  Comes highly recommended from me.
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