What if real light sabers exist?

[Master Seblaise]

Hello galactic warriors

I asked myself this question and i wanted to share my thoughts with you and to know yours.

Lightsaber combat as we know it can be considered from, IMO, two points of view.

1. The Movies point of view

As every combat style in cinema, lightsaber combats are designed to be spectacular and not realistic (it is also true for boxing in Rocky ...). Choreographies are based on a very large range of moves and saber stroke ... The combat must take a lot of time and space.

2. The Martial Art point of view

Lightsaber combats are seen as realistic considering other weapon based martial Arts ... These Martial Arts, of course, consider characteristics of their weapons. Moves and stroke are based on the energy/power needed to make damages.


BUT WHAT IF LIGHTSABERS REALLY EXIST?

I mean, of course they exist because of US 

But imagine a weapon that can make very serious damages just by "touching" your opponent ... you do not need power or even speed to kill ... you just need to touch ...

What can be a realistic fighting style with such a weapon??

To me, and it is only my opinion, it will be something like light weapon fencing (rapier or foil) ... and not saber or great sword fencing (that need power and inertia) ...

What do you think about it? What if such a weapon exists?

[Rapine]

If they actually were lethal, I'd personally be concerned about doing damage to myself just wielding it.  One mistake...

I totally see your point though.  It really wouldn't require a great deal of skill or adeptness to completely do your opponent in...although, if he/she is just as adept...

That's one reason, for me at least, that a hilt needs to be smaller and lighter, and be nimble like a rapier or epee though too.   

Good thought Seb.

[Master Althalus]

you do not need power or even speed to kill

Staying within the laws of physics for our universe, this is not possible. 
To injure, we need kinetic energy. Kinetic energy relies on motion - so a lightsaber has to be in motion to actually inflict damage.
Without motion, the only way to inflict damage is the energy of the plasma blade itself - which would just inflict burns on touch. Besides: to cut THROUGH something, you'd have to draw the line of the cut, at least. 

In fact, thrusts would be the most harmless attacks - the wound is small and instantly cauterized. No internal bleeding, no gangrene ... If the thrust doesn't hit the heart, there's almost no chance of a finalizing injury. The most fatal - and most feared - wound in smallsword was the sucking chest wound. 




 

[Master Seblaise]

To injure, we need kinetic energy.

 

Have to disagree Master  

To injure, we need energy (not especially kinetic ... a flame or a Gamma ray can hurt too) ... According to the movies, the plasma blade deals enough energy to cut almost everything (look at the doors in TPM without a lot of efforts from Qui-Gon) ... He does not have to strike like someone with an Axe on a tree ...

... to me, the plasma blade can deeply and deadly burn someone just by touching him ...

... but, once again, only my opinion


Of course, if you are right and if the plasma blade is cold ... then, you are right to about the thrust attacks  

[Master Althalus]

the plasma blade can deeply and deadly burn someone just by touching him

Nope. It would just inflict a burn. Like a MIG welder - yes, it hurts, but without movement, it's just a burn.
It doesn't matter how easy it is to cut through matter - fact is, the blade has to be moved. And when the target is not stationary, it's necessary to move it even faster. 

Sharp blades don't need a lot of force to cut (ESPECIALLY greatswords  ), edge-alignment and accelaration is more important. As the lightsaber has no edges, speed will be of a prime concern - not so much as to wound, but to hit a moving and defending opponent.

[Dauntless Seven]

Hi.  Am tending to at least partially agree with Master A.  Isn't plasma a cool heat but still has the ability to slice,  cauterize and create fire ?!  To me a lightsaber is a physical extension of the will/desire of a wielder... made manifest through one's connection to the brain/heart of the saber which is the crystal.  Therefore the more perhaps kinetic energy one creates and redirects via dedicated movement... the more powerful and accurate the outcomes.  

Perhaps my thinking is less scientific and more in the realms of metaphysical possibilities.

[Master Seblaise]

Nope. It would just inflict a burn. Like a MIG welder - yes, it hurts, but without movement, it's just a burn.
It doesn't matter how easy it is to cut through matter - fact is, the blade has to be moved. And when the target is not stationary, it's necessary to move it even faster. 

Sharp blades don't need a lot of force to cut (ESPECIALLY greatswords  ), edge-alignment and accelaration is more important. As the lightsaber has no edges, speed will be of a prime concern - not so much as to wound, but to hit a moving and defending opponent.

Once again, i disagree , depending on the temperature it would kill ... and a blade that can easily melt steel like in TPM must be of a very VERY hight temperature with a very high calorific capacity. Then, it is just a matter of heat transmission ... but you can instantly make your blood boiling in your heart just by touching the skin of your chest ... The human body is mainly water and it is not the best thermal insulator ...

[Master Althalus]

but you can instantly make your blood boiling in your heart just by touching the skin of your chest

Ähm - no. Not with something like a physical blade. 
IF the blade would be as hot as to do this, the very AIR would be on fire - and the wielder, being close to the blade. 

Actually, the movie version is rather accurate as to how such a thing would work (given it would be possible to create it in the first place).

[Master Seblaise]

Hi.  Am tending to at least partially agree with Master A.  Isn't plasma a cool heat but still has the ability to slice,  cauterize and create fire ?!  To me a lightsaber is a physical extension of the will/desire of a wielder... made manifest through one's connection to the brain/heart of the saber which is the crystal.  Therefore the more perhaps kinetic energy one creates and redirects via dedicated movement... the more powerful and accurate the outcomes.  

Perhaps my thinking is less scientific and more in the realms of metaphysical possibilities.

Sorry for double posting

A plasma is a state of a material ... and its temperature depends on its density ... There are plasmas that can reach 10 000 000 K

Maybe i am wrong but i never read anything about the temperature of blade of a lightsaber ... so, i have always imagined that the blade is of a very hight temperature since i saw Qui-Gon cutting a steel door like some butter

But id you tell me that, in the SW universe, a blade is cold then yes, Master A. is right and i will make penitence on Hoth  

[Saso Is-kor]

Have to disagree Master  

To injure, we need energy (not especially kinetic ... a flame or a Gamma ray can hurt too) ... According to the movies, the plasma blade deals enough energy to cut almost everything (look at the doors in TPM without a lot of efforts from Qui-Gon) ... He does not have to strike like someone with an Axe on a tree ...

... to me, the plasma blade can deeply and deadly burn someone just by touching him ...

... but, once again, only my opinion


Of course, if you are right and if the plasma blade is cold ... then, you are right to about the thrust attacks  

You bring up an interesting point about the doors and Qui-Gon in TPM. If we assume he had around a 36' blade then those doors were super thin, being that there was a lot of saber showing on both sides of the door as well as when they close you can see they are not very thick. Then when the blast doors are activated he can't go for another circular cutting motion because there is just too much mass so he adopts the "melting" technique by just holding the saber in one place and letting the plasma do the work. There's one instance off the top of my head that I can think of in the Clone Wars where Anakin is cutting through a Zygerrian door and you can see it is a major chore to move the blade in that classic circular pattern to get through. Not to say sabers can cut through practically anything, but it can still take some time. I like to compare it to the real world application of using a blowtorch to cut through a piece of metal (though obviously a blowtorch is less powerful than a saber). It can do it, but it doesn't happen instantaneously.

I can feel myself getting too into this, but hey, good discussion here!      

[Master Seblaise]

Ähm - no. Not with something like a physical blade. 
IF the blade would be as hot as to do this, the very AIR would be on fire - and the wielder, being close to the blade. 

Actually, the movie version is rather accurate as to how such a thing would work (given it would be possible to create it in the first place).

Not necessary ... Air is a very different environment than the human body and its water ...

You can easily go into a sauna where it is 90°C ... but not in a swimming pool where the water is at 90°C ...

[Master Seblaise]

You bring up an interesting point about the doors and Qui-Gon in TPM. If we assume he had around a 36' blade then those doors were super thin, being that there was a lot of saber showing on both sides of the door as well as when they close you can see they are not very thick. Then when the blast doors are activated he can't go for another circular cutting motion because there is just too much mass so he adopts the "melting" technique by just holding the saber in one place and letting the plasma do the work. There's one instance off the top of my head that I can think of in the Clone Wars where Anakin is cutting through a Zygerrian door and you can see it is a major chore to move the blade in that classic circular pattern to get through. Not to say sabers can cut through practically anything, but it can still take some time. I like to compare it to the real world application of using a blowtorch to cut through a piece of metal (though obviously a blowtorch is less powerful than a saber). It can do it, but it doesn't happen instantaneously.

I can feel myself getting too into this, but hey, good discussion here!      

Ok, so, if i understood, the blade would be cold (cold plasma is about 150 to 300°C) and it could be hot if the Jedi/sith concentrates by using the Force ...

If it is like that ... i am wrong

[Master Seblaise]

And just for fun ... i though about that for the blade


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductively_coupled_plasma

[Master Althalus]

OK, let's do this systematically.

1.The blade of a lightsaber doesn't radiate much heat: Otherwise there would be no minor burns on superficious touches and they couldn't threaten anyone with the blade almost touching skin. In the books, those at the point feel the "heat from the blade", but it's obviously not enough to harm them at a fingers breath.

2. The blade can cut through verious materials: It does so very slow, though. Thick doors take a while to cut through, thin walls can be cut a lot faster.

3. Metal melts - but the heat disperses fast: Take Kylo's furious slashing at the console - melted metal and plasteel all around, quickly cooling off.

4. Wounds are instantly cauterized: There's almost no blood seen (GL wanted to have sword-fights without blood). What we see, though, is scorchmarks.

5. "Touches killing": Don't think so - otherwise neither Anakin nor Luke would have survived having their hand cut off. 

[Master Seblaise]

OK, let's do this systematically.

1.The blade of a lightsaber doesn't radiate much heat: Otherwise there would be no minor burns on superficious touches and they couldn't threaten anyone with the blade almost touching skin. In the books, those at the point feel the "heat from the blade", but it's obviously not enough to harm them at a fingers breath.

Ok, this point is indisputable

2. The blade can cut through verious materials: It does so very slow, though. Thick doors take a while to cut through, thin walls can be cut a lot faster.

3. Metal melts - but the heat disperses fast: Take Kylo's furious slashing at the console - melted metal and plasteel all around, quickly cooling off.

Well ... for these two points, sorry, but in our Universe, the blade has to be extremely hot ... But i like the idea that Jedi/Sith can concentrate to make the blade producing this heat using the Force ... Making that not usable during a fight ...

But i think point 3 is an incoherency for cinema and entertainment purpose

On a side note: Heat dispersion does not depend on the heat source but on the material only. If you heat Oil and Aluminum to 500 K, Oil will stay hot a long time and Aluminum will be cold very quickly

4. Wounds are instantly cauterized: There's almost no blood seen (GL wanted to have sword-fights without blood). What we see, though, is scorchmarks.

5. "Touches killing": Don't think so - otherwise neither Anakin nor Luke would have survived having their hand cut off. 

Well .... we can also think that they are Powerful Force users so they can survive wounds that normally could kill someone 



But according to your first point ... well, i will be agree with you: the blade is, in its normal use, not so hot so thrust attacks are not the best ones