A note concerning some of the rumors flying around...

[ed_ification]

Why do people not believe me when I say that drama queens are not welcome here?  Cry censorship all you want, this is a private forum, not Central Park.

Lots of folks don't get the idea of "We reserve the right to refuse service" until it happens to them.  Even then...

Play by the rules, get to stay.  Break the rules, get the boot.  Sounds pretty straightforward to me.

[Darth Wraith]

Ultra, you've been WAY nicer than I would have been. Jedi or not, I'd go kick and destroy on some knuckleheads that try to mess with my livelihood on a page I own.

Amen To That !!!

I Know I Would Have Mounted Some Heads On Some Pikes By Now If It Had Been Me  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(They Make For Surprisingly Decorative Christmas Ornaments !!!) lol...

[Mon Seevs]

I'm pretty new to the saber scene but I would like to know a couple of things. I've already been sent a couple of PM's at another forum about why people are upset with Ultra and there are a couple of things that bother me. The accusation list as I understand it is

1- Controversy surrounding sound fonts. I really don't know enough to comment on this except to be saddened that this disagreement has become litigious. I guess there really isn't anything else to say but I hope things end up being fairly resolved by the courts.

2- The Foc thing. Imo anyone trying to claim ownership of this seems kinda crazy. In the broader context of people making sci fi weaponry it seems like flashing lights are so commonplace that for anyone to try and claim that their flashing light is somehow unique they must be in possession of an extremely detailed mind that can't step back and see the larger picture. I know ultrasabers claims not to be a toy but to me they are part of a larger world where just about every button pressed, dial turned, trigger pulled or weapon swung results in some cool effect that usually has to do with lights and sound.  We aren't dealing in medieval weaponry here. I just don't get trying to claim ownership on something like this and it seems to me a bad precedent to try and set for us saber enthusiasts.

3- Ultra sabers make a shoddy product. I can’t say much that hasn’t already been said about this. I own 2 ultrasabers and I love them. They have some flaws but in general they are the best value I’ve ever gotten on a saber. That said, just because a company is successful does not mean that they only use moral business practices. Plenty of companies do plenty of dishonest and immoral things and still thrive. It’s the world we live in.

4- Ultra keeps anyone from posting a bad review of his product. I guess I get that if you have a forum linked to your business site I can understand not wanting to spend the time and money hosting a forum for people to bash your business. This makes total sense to me; however, I find it a little sketchy that over at fx they seem scared to let anyone post reviews of ultrasabers. Why are they so scared of this resulting in legal trouble? Has US threatened them? The practice of a larger company bullying people with the threat of lawsuits in order to silence negative accusations has become all too common over the last few years. Is this what’s going on here?

[Qui-Tom Helms]

Being just a member of this forum, with no ties to Ultrasabers other than being a customer that is happy with their products, and thankful for this fourm that was set up for us, I can only suggest you read the begining post of this thread that was written by Ultra.  It should answer most of your questions.  Also please read the information that is contained in the Forum Information area, cause it contains the rules "to go by" while in this forum invironment   http://www.saberforum.com/index.php?board=11.0, which are our rules.   

Hopefully the above two areas will give you the information you desire.

[Ultra]

We dont threaten to sue FX for bad reviews, that's ridiculous.  If I was going to sue, wouldn't it make more sense to sue then for spreading these rumors?

*a late night addition to previous post*
Mon Seevs, I will respond to you point by point:

1.  I am saddened as well. What angers me is that other people feel the need to comment on this when they have no clue what transpired.  These are the same people who pledge to believe so strongly in "freedom of speech", yet seem to forget another crucial tenet of our society: "innocent until proven guilty".  I'm not the one who decided to go on an internet crusade about this issue, but when I remained silent, I was branded guilty.  I only responded to it because I felt compelled to.  Now it's up to the courts and I just hope people will learn form this.  Making this issue public was a huge black eye on our hobby and was completely unnecessary.

2.  Sounds like you oppose Plecter.  They were to ones who tried to force us to change the name of our feature, claiming they owned exclusive rights to it.

3.  Being successful does not prove we are ethical, quite right.  Luckily for us, we don't live in a society where we have to prove we are innocent.  If someone levies a charge against us, like we are using immoral business practices, we expect them to be able to prove it.  Before the internet, people were regularly held accountable for their defamatory remarks.  Today, too many internet warriors feel they are safe from reprisal and can say any old thing they want.  That may have been true in the infancy of the net, but today, the internet is no longer anonymous and people are held accountable for what they say.

4.  There is no ban on negativity.  We simply ask that any negativity in a review be fair, that is all. 

The entire concept of a "negative review" in this hobby is a misnomer.  This isn't theater, there is not that degree of subjectivity involved.  A saber is a piece of hardware with tangible features that be graded according to it's purpose. 

Informative reviews on a saber will include both pro's and cons and every feature will be judged on a sliding scale, not a "good vs sucks" dichotomy.

Our review section is not 100%, 10 star reviews; most usually rate us on a scale of 1 to 10.  I think we currently have an overall score of 8.5, which is great but leaves room for improvement.  If we censored negativity, our score would be closer to 9.9 out of 10, don't you think?    :D8

All we ask is that you give us an opportunity to fix a problem you may be having before blasting us on the forum.  If there was an issue, we will fix it, and you can then mention in your review whatever the issue was and that we fixed it.  Give us a chance to show you what good service after the sale really means.  Every good merchant on the planet will ask this of their customers.  It is just common courtesy.

When I bought my 08 Mustang, the remote start wouldn't work right and I had to take it to the dealer 3 times to get it fixed.  It was wired incorrectly and I was very irritated, but the dealer finally got it fixed and I loved the feature since.  I've written many reviews online about that car, and in my reviews I write something like: "The remote start feature came from the dealer with a wiring issue, but the dealer sorted that out and now it works as advertised; love it but I wish the auto-turn-off-timer was adjustable, 9 out of 10".  But how fair would it have been if I just wrote "The stupid remote start doesn't work right on Mustangs! 0 out of 10!!" and left it at that?  Would that have been a fair representation of the product?  No.  And it's that sense of fairness that I ask of everyone here.  That philosophy of fairness will serve you well throughout your life, not just in your dealings with me.

As for FX - It's funny to see someone say that the staff at FX are "afraid" to discuss Ultra Sabers when it's their forum that is the source of the rumor-mill.  Obviously it's not taboo to discuss Ultra Sabers at FX so long as the discussion is defamatory.

This shouldn't be surprising;  the site is run by people who view me as their competition.  I would wager that the last thing they want is to see thousands of pleased Ultra Sabers customers posting positive reviews on their site. It might hurt their own sales.  Every time we release a saber for an extremely low price, it "ruffles the feathers" of competing sellers trying to hock similar sabers costing upwards of $1,000.  The Raven, Consular, and Guardian come to mind.

I used to actually care that the release of a new design would strain my relationships at FX, but rest assured, that is no longer a concern of mine.  Like I have said many many times already, I'm only going to concern myself with the wants and needs of my customers - that's it.  Yall want premium dueling sabers at a reasonable price, and damnit, that's what we are going to make for you.

Thanks for your post, Mon Seevs, that is a very respectful way to raise questions about such a touchy subject.  I greatly appreciate the thought you put into your post and I hope I alleviated some of your concerns.  If you still have questions, we can discuss them further in this thread.

[Mon Seevs]

Thanks for the detailed response, Ultra. I'm glad in general that you have posted this thread and i'm grateful that you have taken the time to answer my questions. Yeah, sorry if I wasn't clear, but I do think that what Plecter is doing is bad for the hobby and think it should be obvious to anyone that Ultrasabers has done nothing illegal or unethical in this regard.

The only point I would make in response to your post is that while it may have been fine to discuss Ultrasabers at fx in the past, it is currently site policy that no discussion of Ultrasabers is allowed. I guess I just don't know any of the inner politics of whats going on so I'll leave it at that.

I think that sometimes a companies customer service reputation can be founded on how  they deal with the small percentage of totally unreasonable  clients. Anyone who sells anything has to deal with some customers who do have unreasonable demands. Maybe they bought something they couldn't afford and are trying to save face by complaining and looking for reimbursement. In any case, I wonder if some of this controversy stems from that all to common occurrence. Thanks for your response again and I do feel more confident about my next US purchase. Time for me to go back to spending my time on the forums complaining about how much I hate the Prequels.

[Ultra]

If FX has changed it's policy, I wouldn't know.  I no longer speak to the site owner or anyone else associated with that forum, but to my knowledge, there is no litigation pending between the two of us.  

Now, I would love it if they never mentioned me again and I would be happy to return the favor.  A forum that is run by a bunch of sellers with their own profit motives is just bad mojo and I really want nothing to do with them.  It would be nice if all our satisfied customers could show their support for us on that forum, but not in it's current state.  Maybe one day when it falls under new management we can attempt to mend bridges.

As for your last point, in all honesty, I freely admit that on occasion I allow my passion for my craft to influence my responses to others.  Most of the time this is a great thing; it allows me to bond with my customers in a way they usually never experience from a business owner.  Other times, it makes me respond unkindly to those who I feel are being needlessly rude.  I understand that some people treat those in the service industry like 2nd class citizens: barking orders, issuing demands, and routinely speaking down to them - that's life and I guess some people don't know any better.  Anyone who has worked retail should know exactly what I'm talking about.

BUT... I'm here to serve customers and sell a product, so I'm supposed to be polite regardless of how I am treated.  Every service person is taught this, but I have a hard time adhering to this principle.  Perhaps it's a character flaw?  Maybe, but I think I don't adhere to it because I ultimately just don't believe in it.  I'm certain this has earned me more than a few enemies.

My philosophy of "I will treat you with as much respect as you treat me" sounds good in principle, but actually isn't what a good salesman lives by.  A good salesman says the customer is always right, kisses ass, and asks for seconds.  But alas, I am not a good salesman, and therefore must rely on the product selling itself in spite of my personality.

If the rumors were simply that I am a jerk, well, that's an opinion and I have to accept that not everyone will like me.  However, to dislike me or Deep on a personal level, warranted or not, is no excuse to try to defame our products or our company.  Am I rambling again?

[The_Night]

If FX has changed it's policy, I wouldn't know.  I no longer speak to the site owner or anyone else associated with that forum, but to my knowledge, there is no litigation pending between the two of us...

BUT... I'm here to serve customers and sell a product, so I'm supposed to be polite regardless of how I am treated.  Every service person is taught this, but I have a hard time adhering to this principle.  Perhaps it's a character flaw?  Maybe, but I think I don't adhere to it because I ultimately just don't believe in it.  I'm certain this has earned me more than a few enemies.

Tell me about it, i work Service/ Waiting Tables on 3rd shift when all the drunkies and weirdies are out... they're never really happy to be out either so they tend to take it out on me  but all i can do is smile and try not to lose it. lol.

in regards to their current policy over there:

"Dear members of fx-sabers

Due to conflicts of interest with or between the following companies pertaining to
the site/forum or any of its affiliates...

Nova Conceptions
Saberforge
Ultrasabers


I have been advised by Legal Counsel that anyone who Formally threatens this site with Legal action
are subject to be removed/banned from membership if deemed necessary and any further contact from
those who have threatened this site with legal action will be considered harassment.

Any Posts Made on Legal Matters Internal or External and Speculation concerning Companies listed in the
Conflicts of Interest, by either its Employees and or Partners are also Discussions that fall under these terms
and since they are under legal scrutiny/investigation at this time will be removed until further notice or once
the conflicts of interest have been resolved by or with said companies."
-Yoda of FX

its sad. on several occasions ive wanted to post reviews/ discussions on US products there, as well as a few of SF's ive got from him. anything posted gets removed though

[Ultra]

If they would follow that rule and stop talking about me over there, that would be awesome.  Lord knows I don't need any more drama in my life.

[The_Night]

If they would follow that rule and stop talking about me over there, that would be awesome.  Lord knows I don't need any more drama in my life.

They don't really, they just refer to US as "that company" or the like.  as if ppl didn't know they were talking about US

[Ultra]

They don't really, they just refer to US as "that company" or the like.  as if ppl didn't know they were talking about US

Figures.

[navajas]

I have purchased a lot of Ultra Sabers' products the past year. Some have had problems and those have been fixed. In the end, I love them all and they are a fulfillment of a childhood dream. My word of mouth has been responsible for three other new customers.

*shrug*

Not sure what else I can say.

[Varan Folos]

I have been following this thread since Ultra first posted it and he has shown alot of grace under fire.   Although I'm still consider myself relatively new to the forum, I have been a customer of US since 2007.  I can only echo the same praises that has already been spoken by other forum members.  Ultra offers an outstanding product in a price range that is very agreeable with my wallet.  It truly is a shame that other companies choose to use smear tactics instead of actually trying to compete with their competition.  Yes I do realize this sentiment has already been expressed, but I did want to show my support of Ultra and the fine staff at US.

[ThreadJack]

I understand that some people treat those in the service industry like 2nd class citizens: barking orders, issuing demands, and routinely speaking down to them - that's life and I guess some people don't know any better.  Anyone who has worked retail should know exactly what I'm talking about.

Sadly, I know all too well what you are talking about. I work retail, and that's my biggest gripe with the whole industry(besides the crap pay, and hours). Honestly I WISH I could respond to people at work the way I've seen you respond to a couple pissy, disgruntled jerk wads, but I can't. I'm just like you; Happy to help so long as you are nice, and don't treat me as if I'm less than dirt. If you ask politely, I'm more than happy to help you find whatever it is you're looking for, or solve your dilemma. But treat me like *CENSORED*, I'll treat you like *CENSORED* right back.

[Manroon]

I know what y'all mean. I work the auction biz, and because my Dads old auction house went under some time back, I spent a long while working for another house and habit people walk in and tell me to my face, knowing who I was, with my MOTHER there and knowing who she was, what a vile evil twisted crook and pos my father is (like bantha poo he is! XP) and it is HARD to keep grace under that kind of fire! Sure, as ultra admitted, his passion for his work sometimes shows in a negative way, but in recent events I have come to respect hi
 Alot for how well he handles things. Bravo, Ultra. And bravo to your fine crew as well!