Lightsabers in trouble

[Darth Logos]

I saw this video a while ago, had a few issues with it.  Now the whole thing seemed to just be a build up for tearing down the Throne Room scene.  Which I have no issue with.  There was not one reason for Rey to have been able to defeat the Praetorians so easily, narratively speaking.  But they seemed to have just glossed over (or were unaware) of the many examples of Non-Force users using Lightsabers in combat both in the Old EU and Current Canon.  Boba Fett, General Grevious, Pre Visla, Cad,  bane to name a few.  The thing these characters had in common was they were all trained in combat.  Much like If your trained in one type of swordsmanship you can pick up another type of sword and use it...BUT you wont be able to use it to its fullest extent. Contrary to common belief, lightsabers do have weight so swinging them and not hitting themselves isn't even a thing.  But you'll notice none of them do the fancy flourishes Jedi/Sith are so fond of other than grevious.   The fights these characters were in showed they could hold their own against Force users..for a bit.  But ultimately couldn't win.
          In terms of Rey, she was a scrapper.  Had to learn to defend herself on Jakku so could "hold her own" so to speak.  Her fight with Kylo showed her constantly making heavy swipes....much like she would do with her staff.  Each blow though was easily parried by kylo in which she would then retreat.  As well at this point, which has been stated before, Kylo was not in the best shape..physically or mentally.  His connection to the Dark Side was flickering because of what he had just done.  So his Pain was a hindrance instead of a boon.  But he still got the upper hand.  UNTIL Rey allowed to Force to flow.  Not for her to control though...the Force was controlling her.  In that moment she was angry, scared, hurt and mourning both Han and Finn.....She used the Dark Side.  This was where I thought they were going to go (and for all we know its what JJ intended).  Rey had shown her capability to mimic what she felt.  Kylo pushed into her mind so she copied the feeling and pushed back.  Everything about how she used the Force was what she saw from Kylo...Dark Side.  But of course any interting thing that was started in TFA was abandoned in TLJ.

I like how you started this....until you stated that a lightsaber has weight. How does a blade of pure energy have weight?

But I do agree with the analysis. Of the characters that you listed that were shown in media using sabers, other than Grievous, their technique was rudimentary and sluggish; easily beaten by a Jedi.

I like the points you guys are making, brings a lot of good perspective and takes things deeper than what the narrator of the clip was willing to go.

A point that he brought up and that I agree with is that so many blows that those lightsabers landed should've been leathal and final. No scratching or flesh wounds. All other examples of lightsaber combat had this effect until the Disney era. I'd like to see that changed back with films going forward.

Not entirely. I submit ESB: Battle of Bespin. Luke hit Vader in the shoulder with a glancing blow. Vader vocally cries out from the hit, and then proceeds to fight. Although he was wearing armor (whose specs evade my knowledge base). However in ATC, Obi Wan was put out of commission by small wounds on the leg and arm.

Also noteworthy: The battle of Mustafar circa LEGO Star Wars, Obi Wan singes Vader's behind, and the fight continued.

[Darth Tepes]

I like how you started this....until you stated that a lightsaber has weight. How does a blade of pure energy have weight?

But I do agree with the analysis. Of the characters that you listed that were shown in media using sabers, other than Grievous, their technique was rudimentary and sluggish; easily beaten by a Jedi.
Not entirely. I submit ESB: Battle of Bespin. Luke hit Vader in the shoulder with a glancing blow. Vader vocally cries out from the hit, and then proceeds to fight. Although he was wearing armor (whose specs evade my knowledge base). However in ATC, Obi Wan was put out of commission by small wounds on the leg and arm.

Also noteworthy: The battle of Mustafar circa LEGO Star Wars, Obi Wan singes Vader's behind, and the fight continued.

This will probably make your head hurt since I'm sure the science is off...but remember..Uncle George just wanted a Space Sword and others tried to retrofit a scientific explanation.

The hilt, of course, has weight.  And the emitter is usually going to have a bit more mass than the rest of the innards, this would help orient the position of the blade.  The blade itself has magnetic properties as well as being in the "plasma loop".  This energy would create a "weight" to the blade...infinitesimal  but still noticeable to someone combat trained.  Much how someone with extensive training in firearms can tell if a gun is loaded or unloaded by its weight.  This goes into explain why Non-Force users can't do the Flourishes that Force Users can.  Not counting Cyborgs like Grevious.  Lightsabers not have true edges like real swords also helps since no matter how you hold it its going to cut.  That's why I have always wanted to use Escrima techniques with lightsabers

[Taegin Roan]

Also noteworthy: The battle of Mustafar circa LEGO Star Wars, Obi Wan singes Vader's behind, and the fight continued.

Indeed, the best proof out there that lightsabers aren't as dangerous as they are made out to be in some movies.

[Saso Is-kor]

I feel like there's a Canon instance of the saber having weight but I can't pinpoint where I saw it. For those of you who are more versed in the Rebels show, wasn't it when Kanan was introducing Sabine to the Darksaber? Could have sworn she mentioned it was "heavier than she thought" or something like that.

I'll break the ice and be the first to bring up Inquisitor saber-copters as an example of Disney not knowing sabers too much.  I actually hated something like that was Canon until I researched it a bit more. It isn't the spinning motion of the plasma blades that provides the lift but a built in repulsorlift and the spin is just a byproduct.

[Darth Logos]

This will probably make your head hurt since I'm sure the science is off...but remember..Uncle George just wanted a Space Sword and others tried to retrofit a scientific explanation.

The hilt, of course, has weight.  And the emitter is usually going to have a bit more mass than the rest of the innards, this would help orient the position of the blade.  The blade itself has magnetic properties as well as being in the "plasma loop".  This energy would create a "weight" to the blade...infinitesimal  but still noticeable to someone combat trained.  Much how someone with extensive training in firearms can tell if a gun is loaded or unloaded by its weight.  This goes into explain why Non-Force users can't do the Flourishes that Force Users can.  Not counting Cyborgs like Grevious.  Lightsabers not have true edges like real swords also helps since no matter how you hold it its going to cut.  That's why I have always wanted to use Escrima techniques with lightsabers

So when you say "weight" you are referring to the volume of plasma of the blade that is so minuscule, it makes a gram seem like a ton by comparison? If so, then yes, I will acquiesce that a saber blade does in fact have mass, though it may as well be weightless for all it is perceived by the uninitiated.

I'll break the ice and be the first to bring up Inquisitor saber-copters as an example of Disney not knowing sabers too much.  I actually hated something like that was Canon until I researched it a bit more. It isn't the spinning motion of the plasma blades that provides the lift but a built in repulsorlift and the spin is just a byproduct.

The line starts with me and continues back. The Inq sabers was pure, unadulterated kids' show gimmick bullshell. I have the same problems with them as I do lightwhips. That's not how light works. Also, even if they had repulsors built in, how would they be able to hold on while the sabers pushed against everything below them? But there is much that proves the idiots in charge have no desire to deliver a quality product to the real fans.

[Taegin Roan]

I feel like there's a Canon instance of the saber having weight but I can't pinpoint where I saw it. For those of you who are more versed in the Rebels show, wasn't it when Kanan was introducing Sabine to the Darksaber? Could have sworn she mentioned it was "heavier than she thought" or something like that.

You are correct. But I believe it was because she had not "bonded" (for lack of a better term) with the saber yet. I believe after she started using it a bit, she also said she felt like it was getting lighter.

[Darth Logos]

You are correct. But I believe it was because she had not "bonded" (for lack of a better term) with the saber yet. I believe after she started using it a bit, she also said she felt like it was getting lighter.

IT'S A ROCK

[Taegin Roan]

IT'S A ROCK

GET OVER IT!!!

[Darth Tepes]

IT'S A ROCK

Its a Force Connected Rock

[Darth Logos]

GET OVER IT!!!

Never.

Its a Force Connected Rock

It is a lifeless aggregate of minerals subjected to specific conditions. Nothing more.

"The Force is an energy field created by all living things." - Obi Wan Kenobi
"Life creates it. Makes it grow." - Yoda

[Darth Tepes]

Never.
It is a lifeless aggregate of minerals subjected to specific conditions. Nothing more.

"The Force is an energy field created by all living things." - Obi Wan Kenobi
"Life creates it. Makes it grow." - Yoda

...and Kyber's were called LIVING Crystals.  There were unique and even the Jedi did not 100% know about them.... why is this such a sore point for you.  You can accept a Mystical Force giving people powers but not that it can create a semi sentient Crystal?

[Darth Logos]

...and Kyber's were called LIVING Crystals.  There were unique and even the Jedi did not 100% know about them.... why is this such a sore point for you.  You can accept a Mystical Force giving people powers but not that it can create a semi sentient Crystal?

Pretty much. The Force I've always had an issue with living rock. There are criteria that must be met for something to be considered as a life form. Rocks/crystals do not meet any of these criteria.

The seven characteristics of life include:
- responsiveness to the environment
- growth and change
- ability to reproduce
- have a metabolism and breathe
- maintain homeostasis
- being made of cells
- passing traits onto offspring

Now if you want to venture into the realm of fantasy, go nuts. Rock Biters, Giants of Middle Earth, even Korg.

[Darth Tepes]

Pretty much. The Force I've always had an issue with living rock. There are criteria that must be met for something to be considered as a life form. Rocks/crystals do not meet any of these criteria.

The seven characteristics of life include:
- responsiveness to the environment
- growth and change
- ability to reproduce
- have a metabolism and breathe
- maintain homeostasis
- being made of cells
- passing traits onto offspring

Now if you want to venture into the realm of fantasy, go nuts. Rock Biters, Giants of Middle Earth, even Korg.

Well there is the thing, Star Wars is that nice mix of Fantasy and Sci-fi.  I am not a Sci-Fi fan...Star Trek is about as far as I go and even then I'm not to versed in it. If it was not for the Force/Jedi/Sith aspect...Star Wars would hold little to no interest for me.  So Fantasy Rules do Apply to Star Wars.   Even so, I think your taking the word "Living" too literally.  The Crystals are Nexus' or conduits for The Force.  Maybe a better comparison objects used in Magical items.  The Crystals don't use the Force..The Force uses the Crystal.

[Darth Logos]

Well there is the thing, Star Wars is that nice mix of Fantasy and Sci-fi.  I am not a Sci-Fi fan...Star Trek is about as far as I go and even then I'm not to versed in it. If it was not for the Force/Jedi/Sith aspect...Star Wars would hold little to no interest for me.  So Fantasy Rules do Apply to Star Wars.   Even so, I think your taking the word "Living" too literally.  The Crystals are Nexus' or conduits for The Force.  Maybe a better comparison objects used in Magical items.  The Crystals don't use the Force..The Force uses the Crystal.

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So then why didn't Luke use the Sorting Hat to find out the Solo brat was a bad egg and immediately exile him to Mordor?

[Darth Tepes]

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So then why didn't Luke use the Sorting Hat to find out the Solo brat was a bad egg and immediately exile him to Mordor?