Injury stories thread

[Darth Nonymous]

Exactly, it is a reaction of protection and compensation. The body reacts in such a way that it attempts to heal it self so that the body feels less and less pain. It is probably similar to why your hands get calloused when you do work. The body is learning from the pain by altering itself to compensate in such a way that overall benefits the body. Secondly, as you mentioned, the instinct to dislike pain will allow a person to attempt to be more vigilant of that part of the body. If I hit your side with enough force to cause pain, you will attempt to keep me from hitting you there, which in effect, is teaching you to block my attacks so you don't get hurt.

Nope. what it does is create imbalances in your body that will arise as debilitating and limiting movement pathologies. It creates destructive hyper vigilance which will make your swordplay suffer. It will reduce your flexibility and your reaction time.

And the avoidance of pain is the worst motivator for swordplay. It makes one shy, predictable, slow, and timid. The thought of pain make sone stop trying to do their best and simply try to avoid being hurt. It's like little kids bashing each other with sticks. You will end up falling for every feint in the book. Putting protection on allows you to go full force without holding back. It also keeps you safe from injury which takes away training time and retards development.

If reckless behavior was so sexy, then many of my actions should have gotten me farther in a relationship, not farther away from one.

Not sexy to others. Sexy to you. Makes you feel like a rock star. Makes you look like.......

[The_Ronin_Jedi]

Nope. what it does is create imbalances in your body that will arise as debilitating and limiting movement pathologies.

Than why is it that even though everyone has been bruised more times than they can count, no harm has ever seemed to come of it?

[Darth Nonymous]

Than why is it that even though everyone has been bruised more times than they can count, no harm has ever seemed to come of it?

It has. we have amazing amounts of arthritis and muscle skeletal disorders in the walking population. As a trainer and post rehab specialist I worked with tons of people who had serious limitations because of simple wear and tear, almost 100% of it preventable. I see the effect of this stuff every day. I know the damage it can do.

Poeple can't do a single body weight squat these days. Push ups? forget about it. The injury rate from the high intensity movement alone is staggering. It's a huge problem in the fitness industry.

LOTS of harm comes from this.  Look at any injury rates where safety gear was introduced and you will see a dramatic decline of injury and a dramatic increase of level of competition etc. Freeing your self up by wearing gear is not only the smart thing to do, it will help you improve, rather than stagnate.

If you want to be mediocre and have a short career, go ahead use pain as a motivator.

If you want to excel, wear gear.

[Darth Nonymous]

Than why is it that even though everyone has been bruised more times than they can count, no harm has ever seemed to come of it?

And then there is the fighting aspect. Most if not all of the people who I have sparred with in many weapon arts and such, wear huge proponents of safety gear. Those that weren't often got trounced by rank beginners because of the detrimental effect that type of training has.

[The_Ronin_Jedi]

It has. we have amazing amounts of arthritis and muscle skeletal disorders in the walking population. As a trainer and post rehab specialist I worked with tons of people who had serious limitations because of simple wear and tear, almost 100% of it preventable. I see the effect of this stuff every day. I know the damage it can do.

Poeple can't do a single body weight squat these days. Push ups? forget about it. The injury rate from the high intensity movement alone is staggering. It's a huge problem in the fitness industry.

LOTS of harm comes from this.  Look at any injury rates where safety gear was introduced and you will see a dramatic decline of injury and a dramatic increase of level of competition etc. Freeing your self up by wearing gear is not only the smart thing to do, it will help you improve, rather than stagnate.

If you want to be mediocre and have a short career, go ahead use pain as a motivator.

If you want to excel, wear gear.

I'd like to believe you, but I can't find anything to back what you are saying up. The only harm that I can find in the light bruising that you could associate lightsaber strikes with is if and only if you are hit many times in the same place over a long period of time, which only causes a permanent color change of that area of the skin. So long as you are a normal healthy person, there doesn't seem to be any issues from what I am researching.

The correlations between bruising and arthritis and bruising and skeletal muscle disorders must be not well researched, since I can't find any studies on them.

Contusions seem to be the only major risk, however they only seem to be one of those "okay, let's stop 'till tomorrow or the next day" kind of injuries.

Do you have any studies that I could take a look at?

[Darth Nonymous]

I'd like to believe you, but I can't find anything to back what you are saying up. The only harm that I can find in the light bruising that you could associate lightsaber strikes with is if and only if you are hit many times in the same place over a long period of time, which only causes a permanent color change of that area of the skin. So long as you are a normal healthy person, there doesn't seem to be any issues from what I am researching.

The correlations between bruising and arthritis and bruising and skeletal muscle disorders must be not well researched, since I can't find any studies on them.

Contusions seem to be the only major risk, however they only seem to be one of those "okay, let's stop 'till tomorrow or the next day" kind of injuries.

Do you have any studies that I could take a look at?

Over use injuries are well researched and plentiful, look at the particulars you wish. The neurological reaction to impact is similarly well researched, but not in one place. This information has reached textbooks at this point. I find it hard to believe that you an find no support for these well know biological and neurological behaviors. Proprioception, Myotactic and Golgi responses, and recent pain research all contribute.

Here is one showing the connection between pain avoidance and compensatory behavior: http://bmo.sagepub.com/content/22/1/62.short

And another: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0005796783900104

And here is one showing the avoidance of pain being a negative factor in chronic pain.: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304395999002420

Neuromuscular patterning and success/failure: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00222895.1978.10735135#.UyJsbFFdUgw

You may see a bruise, but you are building a fear reaction in the body which will inevitably be counter production and actually degenerative. Inflimation can cause all kinds of motor and inflammatory compensations that will haunt you later in life.

But as far as the effect on sword play, I can only urge you to take a smarter path. Unprotected sparring does not lead to mastery. The avoidance of pain is a terrible learning tool for technique. Every single experience I have had sword fighting backs this up. There is no contradiction.

[Jedijosh]

@Nomynous I've been following this and I get the point. so now a question where would you recommend getting the equipment that TPLA recommends? And why do you recommend the company or place?
I know that master Kane is working on a prototype armor specifically designed for this sport but it is not supposed to be ready till the end of the year. Look at the bottom of page six of this topic. His is the next one up.

[Darth Nonymous]

@Nomynous I've been following this and I get the point. so now a question where would you recommend getting the equipment that TPLA recommends? And why do you recommend the company or place?
I know that master Kane is working on a prototype armor specifically designed for this sport but it is not supposed to be ready till the end of the year. Look at the bottom of page six of this topic. His is the next one up.

used lacrosse and hockey pads are plentiful at a local used sporting goods store. And basic fencing helmets can be gotten for about 50 bucks off of Amazon. Otherwise, helmets that offer face protection and impact resistance for the skull are what you need. Lacrosse and hockey gloves are awesome, but Kote and HEMA gloves will work as well.

You really need to pay attention to the joints and fragile areas like the shoulder, elbow wrist, etc. Eye, face and groin protection also a must. Most professional sports leagues that do weapon combat, like SCA, all have their protective gear requirements. Being that cheap effective armor is so available now days, it should be pretty easy to put together a set.

Hope that helps. We will be doing a show on protective gear and such in two weeks. We will cover everything in detail then.

[Jedijosh]

used lacrosse and hockey pads are plentiful at a local used sporting goods store. And basic fencing helmets can be gotten for about 50 bucks off of Amazon. Otherwise, helmets that offer face protection and impact resistance for the skull are what you need. Lacrosse and hockey gloves are awesome, but Kote and HEMA gloves will work as well.

You really need to pay attention to the joints and fragile areas like the shoulder, elbow wrist, etc. Eye, face and groin protection also a must. Most professional sports leagues that do weapon combat, like SCA, all have their protective gear requirements. Being that cheap effective armor is so available now days, it should be pretty easy to put together a set.

Hope that helps. We will be doing a show on protective gear and such in two weeks. We will cover everything in detail then.

K thank you I have to admit the idea of spending a couple hundred bucks on protective gear was sounding ouch but fifty bucks for a used helmet is not bad. Thank you. I'll start looking and see if there are any sporting goods stores in the area.
Edit* Found a good mask already. That was way easier than expected. The part I expect to have trouble with is sporting good stores in the area. I think most school equipment here is ordered in.

[Master Nero Attoru]

K thank you I have to admit the idea of spending a couple hundred bucks on protective gear was sounding ouch but fifty bucks for a used helmet is not bad. Thank you. I'll start looking and see if there are any sporting goods stores in the area.
Edit* Found a good mask already. That was way easier than expected. The part I expect to have trouble with is sporting good stores in the area. I think most school equipment here is ordered in.

For fencing masks I usually recommend the two suppliers I've gotten most of my stuff from over the years - Blue Gauntlet and Absolute Fencing.  Not advertising them per se, just letting you know where you can get the safety gear you need.

[scraver]

Fingers getting whacked/smashed/squashed more then once is not good.
Take a quick look at the tip of this pinkie finger.


Yes, the pinkie is not used much and can be managed without to an extent but trust me having to modify how you do things because even a small amount of weight causes discomfort really sucks.

[The_Ronin_Jedi]

@Nonymous

Thanks for the sources, I see your point now.

I would like to mention though that unlike you, with many years of knowledge and job experience working with these issues, I am an 18 year old undergraduate astronomy student. I have neither the job experience nor the formal education to have any knowledge of the subject.

P.S. Where would one get some sort of padded chest protection? I can't imagine that a forceful stab to the gut wouldn't cause some real damage.

[Knuckles]

We use a baseball umpire's chest guard when we train with wooden wasters (practice swords). I picked mine up at a local thrift shop for about five bucks.

[Mr.0PT1C]

wow - i didnt mean to cause such an uproar guys.
those stories i told were when we first got started and were testing things out and swing at each other like amateurs. Fingers get caught in the cross fire as im sure many of you can confirm that.
Things have calmed down since then. The bruises still happen but we learned our lessons about going full swing.

I appreciate the concern, trust me - we arent out to hurt eachother, things just happen.
saftey gear is always recommended. I recommend it for everyone. I was just pointing out everytime I get hit I learn to have a stronger block or a better position for my blade to be. Hand position included.
The sad truth is Pain is always the best teacher.

[scraver]

That pinkie isn't even as a result of something combat related.
"Taking care" when putting things down, while a popular thing to mention during the health and safety portion of job training for certain jobs, doesn't always work in practice.