Remember that we're supposed to be discussing fictional Jedi and Sith. It doesn't matter if there are religions or not because there is a "no religion" rule here on the forum. It seems to me that this particular rule is being crossed in this discussion, so let's keep the discussion to the Star Wars universe.
Thank you for the warning.
Since I believe that real live in fiction does in fact come intocontact at this point I will cease my interaction with the point below as well even when I would really enjoy adding my perspective as well…
Uff I just saw that the thread evolved so much while I was asleep so can we still answer that or is it not prohibited?
OK, I have no wish to break the rules on the forum, so this is the last that I'll say on the subject here.
That's fine. I appreciate that English is not your first language, and you are a lot more eloquent in it than I am in German. But I meant no conflict with my choice of words. It was more along the lines of "Ich werde versuchen, Ihnen zu antworten!"
Very different, as the Jedi do not seek empowerment for any advertised reason other than to help others; at the expense of themselves, whereas the Sith are always portrayed as doing the exact opposite.
I don't see this as true. The Jedi accept "acceptable emotions", and warn constantly against unacceptable ones. Cases in point:
"Beware attachment, the shadow of greed that is" Master Yoda
"Fear is the path to the Dark Side....fear lead to anger, anger leads to hate....hate, leads to suffering!" Master Yoda
"Don't centre on your Anxieties Obi-wan, keep you concentration here and now; where it belongs" Master Qui-gon Jinn
"Bury your feelings deep inside. They do you credit, but they could be made to serve the Emperor" Master Obi-wan Kenobi
It is well known that, in addition to the forbidding of "negative emotions" (fear, anger, hate, vengfulness, desire, lust, envy) the Jedi seek to prevent attachment and love as well. They are yoked by this, where the Sith are not.
Also, the Jedi do not come to "peace" with their Anger, Rage, Hate, or Fear. They seek to eradicate these emotions from themselves; as one might destroy a virus.
I agree that the physical and spiritual training are largely similar, with as we've discussed the different emphasise on how to deal with emotions. (suppress or draw strength from)
I did not say that the Sith were stronger, or better Warriors. Freer? Yes, but not stronger. That said, the amount of Jedi you see teaming up again a single Sith makes me wonder if the Jedi themselves consider the Sith to be stronger, faster and more lethal.
I agree, Master Yoda is a match for almost any Sith, just as Master Sidious is a match for any Jedi. Master Sidious' force lightning and Master Yoda's Tutaminis (energy absorbtion) skills are equal, their saber skills are equal, their acrobatic skills are equal too.
I do not disrespect the Jedi; in fact I find their search for inner peace laudible; if at too high a price. I disagree though that a Jedi approach is more possible in life; I don't believe it is. In fact, I believe that the passivity of the Jedi is a great weakness in the type of society we live on. I offer one my quote, from "Enter the Dragon";
"Strength makes all other values possible! How many delicate wonders have left the world, for lack of the strength to survive?" Mr Han.
This is a very Jedi crede still.
Let's look at the two;
Jedi code;
There is no emotion, there is peace
There is ignorance, there is knowledge
There is no passion, there is serenity
There is no chaos, there is harmony
There is no death, there is the force.
Sith code;
Peace is a lie. There is only passion,
Through passion I gain strength,
Through strength I gain power,
Through power I gain victory,
Through Victory my chains are broken,
The Force shall free me.
If one were to amalgamate the two; then might I suggest;
Peace and Passion are two sides of the same coin,
Knowledge is Strength, Ignorance is weakness,
Power and Serenity are not in conflict,
Victory brings harmony out of chaos,
The Force brings Victory and Freedom from Death.
I want to widen this though, and look at the Crystal Code of the Jedi, then offer the Crystal code of the Sith; which is of my own design!
Jedi Crystal Code
The Crystal is the Heart of the Blade,
The Heart is the Crystal of the Jedi,
The The Jedi is the Crystal of the Force,
The Force is the Blade of the Heart,
All are intertwined; the Crystal, the Blade,
the Jedi. We are one!
Sith Crystal Code
The Crystal is the Will of the Blade,
The Will is the Crystal of the Sith,
The Sith is the Will of the Dark Side,
The Dark Side is the Blade of the Will,
All are connected; the Crystal, the Blade,
the Sith. All are One!
For obvious reasons, these are almost identical, but deliberately different. A "different point of view" you might say.
A 6 year old would easily see that the Jedi are good, because most 6 year olds don't have the depth of experience or cognitive ability to look at anything deeper then face value.
A 6 year old would be easily be influenced by the Jedi constantly saying they are the guardians of peace and justice in the Republic, they probally wouldn't question whether the actions they took actually backed up that claim.
A 6 year old would easily identify the white hat/ black hat story line, I mean the Jedi are fighting evil people so they are good.
The fact that the Jedi are fighting evil people comes out fairly quickly, in the OT, slaughtering old people and Jawas, blowing up planets a few force chokes thrown in for good measure. My point is that fighting evil people doesn't make you good by default, it just means you are fighting evil people. Just because the Sith and Empire are evil, that doesn't make the Jedi good.
@ Darth Severus
That was what I meant I was looking at it from another perspective for which I apologize if it brought up a misunderstanding of any sort.
I believe that when you are a force against evil which in turn does not produce or use evil it is almost natural to think that they a re a force for good but it seems like you don’t see it that way. Hmm. Different approach.
Jedi train younglings encourage individuality by selecting the proper master for the individual they are as father/motherfigures to them and would never harm someone except out of self defence.
They don’t look out for their own best interest instead spreading as much compassion and understanding around them that anyone can grow. They are perceptive of everyone and bestow theyr wisdom freely to anyone found wanting.
These are a few more points to tip the libra towards good for the jedi.
UA...unauthorized absence...meaning he was not where he was supposed to be...he had done this twice before and in the end he wanted to be out of the Coast Guard and smoke pot...so he left the base when the ship got underway and made a run for it.
How on earth this became about me is beyond me.
His back story is one full of lies, drug abuse, and failing to meet his obligations...he signed up for the Coast Guard, he asked to be allowed to join, and then decided that it was too hard and that he loved pot more than work.
He was an adult pretending to be a ninja, constantly lying, collected a paycheck while hiding from all work assignments, and joined a military service with a mission of drug interdiction knowing he loved the pot without intention to stop using.
So there you go.
His example is one of a lazy, incompetent, slacker...the sith reference was the real world consideration where he constantly told lies about being a ninja and worse a martial arts instructor.
*****
Since I went off topic with my story that somehow went a different direction than intended, let me steer my ship back on course.
I am of the belief that Jedi as a whole are honorable, selfless, and good.
I am of the belief that sith as a whole are selfish, power hungry, and evil.
As I am of the Jedi point of view it is easy to see the evil of sith.
I can also accept that those who like the power aspect of the sith could see the restrictive and controlling nature of the Jedi as evil.
As far as forum aspects go, I am a supporter of all our forumites and those things they appreciate...be it Green Lantern Jedi, considering costumes and background for being a living building avatar Jedi, undead sith lords, robots, power rangers, death metal, MLP, ABBA, zombies, superheroes, electronics, fanfic, cooking, fanart, or whatever else pops up.
So as this thread has completed jumped the tracks let us all do our part to put the train back on the rails.
For my part I accept that I have little real world love for anything sith...but I have been married, been divorced, held my children when they were born, held friends and family while they died, had a 100K in my hands, signed a house back to the bank, bought new cars, been in accidents that totaled vehicles, had fun partying, been addicted to alcohol before I was legal to drink, and lots more in between...meaning I have seen a bit of life and experienced plenty of ups and downs...enough to see that I just do not have any more room for darkness.
In the real world there is enough evil already.
For me, IMO, I have seen enough evil that I just do not want to even consider the fantasy aspect of being dark.
But that is me. Right now. A handful of years ago I would be right with ya'll on the sith train...wooo hooo dark force powers...yayyyy. But that was then.
Again...I like all of you gals and guys...if you like sith or Jedi...Ewok or Zabrak...Imp or Rebel...Star Wars or Star Trek...etc. I am on board.
I will not reach a point where I will agree with anything sith. Just not going to happen.
For RP characters and gaming, then the door is open. I could easily portray a sith...and I suspect many would find my efforts quite sithy. But that would just be an acting job, not a shift of philosophy.
Forgive me if I am a fairly happy guy, with a family, and appreciating the potential of good in the world...I prefer the thought of being a good guy...thus Jedi.
Have a great weekend all!
@ Jedi Relmeob
I like people who are happy! They can see without attachement of their own problems what is happening around them while they tend to be quite hazardous infectious with their good mood. I tend to see myself as a Happy Camper to ^^
Someone listed a bunch of quotes as points against the Jedi approach to emotion. I think there's some misunderstanding going on here.
And I can't even get into what I really want to say because of the eternal "is Zen a religion or a philosophy" debate.
I will say this: go read some Zen koans, look up the Ten Bulls, and then look at the Jedi as presented in the movies, not the EU. The EU does idiotic fanservice things with Jedi and Sith.
@ Aurentis
Oh I am actually right in the middle of a Zen book from Master Nagarjuna from India and his insights are timeless. I support your proposition!
Good point!
honestly, I'm torn. I've never been able to choose between Jedi or Sith, so I tend to stand in the gray area. I love the alure of the Sith, their carefree-ness...But I love the "good guy" vibe and the morals of the Jedi...BAH!
@ Hanslow
Why dont you just take the parts that fit you best and create your own legacy?
Nothing is set in stone for you and the only limits that exist are the ones you lay for yourself.
I enjoy playing a bad guy - because I'm really NOT one.
It gives me a healthy way to let that side of myself out, without putting real people at risk. We've all got our bad sides, brought out by different triggers - and releasing those in safe, healthy ways is good for us.
And Jedi allow for love - but they forbid attachment. That is to say, they forbid placing that love above one's oaths and duties.
How can you forbid that over which one has no control? One cannot outlaw or restrict feelings, try as one might. Jedi feel as Sith do - as all sentient beings do.
But they aren't ruled by their passions. They don't dwell in them.
This does not mean they don't have them.
A Jedi seeks many points of view, to attempt total understanding (or, to use a Heinlein term, Jedi attempt to grok) - Sith attempt to enforce their understanding.
@ ed_ification
You just remembered me of the Movie Equilibrium with your words.
If you haven’t seen it yet I want to recomment it to you ed_ification!
And im glad that you reinforce my argument a few sites ago that Jedis have emotions but accept them and live in peace with them.
I wish a nice day for you all and want to say that I never enjoyed a conversation about Star Wars that much! *happyjump*!
