A note on "proper sabers" for "proper forms of combat" - Caine's recommendations

[Kryy Jacobi]

Thanks for the input .... and sorry for the slow response. I've been unexpectedly offline due to an ill family member.

I'll continue reading and I'm sure I'll have some more questions.

[LordDesann]

For me its been quite a big debate regarding my saber form. Since i've purchased my first ultrasabers which was the V1 dominix, it seemed comfortable enough for Shien/Djem So, I've been inspired by Starkiller in Soulcalibur which seemed to be the closest thing I can practice with. Afterwards, when i purchased my two nemesis, i tried a Force Unleashed II type of grip, it was a little bit harder since the switch is closer to the emitter than the V1 Dominix.....i purchased the Aeon.

I find the Aeon (in my opinion) to be satisfying for Shien/Djem So users.

Anyone else would like to share this opinion??   

[Xaelk]

I just wanted to point out, Caine, that in fencing there is a type of grip called the "pistol grip" that is quite common, and resembles a curved saber in some instances, especially in the way its gripped.

Edit: it could also be based on the "French" grip, which has a slight to significant curve.

[Darth Sicarius]

Quick question, can a dominix v2 be used with a Djem So style of fighting?

[navajas]

I just wanted to point out, Caine, that in fencing there is a type of grip called the "pistol grip" that is quite common, and resembles a curved saber in some instances, especially in the way its gripped.

Edit: it could also be based on the "French" grip, which has a slight to significant curve.

Yeah, was going to mention this myself. I was on a traditional (as in NOT electric) fencing team through college and there actually aren't any hilts that are straight hafts like a light saber. The foil hilt I prefer is shaped like a very shallow 'S' to fit the shape of the interior of your palm.

For those interested: Look at your palm facing your eyes. Close your hand almost into a loose fist as if you're holding a (thinnish) hilt. Look past your finger tips into your palm. The passage from the bottom of your hand out through the top where a blade would project is very definitely NOT a straight lined cylinder. It's curvy. If you're going to be fighting all day long the closer you can get to this natural neutral shape the better off you will be and the more endurance you will have.

And as for saber, the hilts are absolutely bent, very much like, ugh, hate to type this drivel: Count Dooku's. Once you hold one in your hand it's pretty apparent why it's shaped the way it is. In fact, look at any number of single handed bladed weapons, from axes to cutlass to sabers, bent curved hilts are pretty common.

I had no experience with those pistol grip things though. Might it have scored me five a little more often? Maybe, but so damned ugly, like some weird alien gynecological tool, just not worth it.

Regardless, it makes every bit of sense for the shape of a light saber hilt to match the fighting style of its owner. A big two handed hacker may very well want a big straight handle, while a slashing dodging minx could feel much more comfortable with a bent hilt.

[ThreadJack]

Quick question, can a dominix v2 be used with a Djem So style of fighting?

Really you can use any hilt you want, with any fighting style. Some are better suited to certain styles than others, but you'll adapt.

[Darth Sicarius]

is there a website that can help me study this saber style? or is it something you just come across?

[Caine]

is there a website that can help me study this saber style? or is it something you just come across?

Here's a hint: Watch for a certain someone's Saber Forms of Combat CD's that will be avail. on the Ultrasaber's website later on this month. All forms of combat will be covered.   

[Darth Sicarius]

Here's a hint: Watch for a certain someone's Saber Forms of Combat CD's that will be avail. on the Ultrasaber's website later on this month. All forms of combat will be covered.   

Lol will do Caine. I will definately look into getting those. Ive seen some of your videos on youtube, and I can already say I'm impressed with your work. I look forward to seeing these if I can get my hands on them 

[The White Knight]

Wow!  I joined this forum not long after it came out but I never got around to actually reading it until now.  What have I been missing out on!!!

I am an Ataru user for a single blade.  Although I am much more efficient with lunges and stabs I very much prefer twirls and spins.  I find this form to be much less effective but very graceful and decorative.

I prefer a double saber, although from my experience it is extremely difficult to wield and quite ineffective.  Because the double saber is less manueverable and slower due to its extra weight, I tend to fall back on soresu as my primary double saber form.

I was actually trying to develop real physical lightsaber forms based on the descriptions I had read about them.  I took it so far as to create a Jedi Order.....until Lucasfilm sent me a letter advising me not to use their copyrighted material.

[Gulcasa]

@JdiKnhtJMH
Thanks alot for sharing your experiences
I hope you're not angry if I take note and learn from these experiences. *saves it in my "Lightsaber-studies"-directory*

[Novastar]

I just wanted to point out, Caine, that in fencing there is a type of grip called the "pistol grip" that is quite common, and resembles a curved saber in some instances, especially in the way its gripped.

Edit: it could also be based on the "French" grip, which has a slight to significant curve.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, but... the "pistol grip" for foils is simply that--the grip itself.  The remainder of the weapon is just as standard as any other foil (such as the French or even antiquated Italian grip style).

The pistol grip actually has a somewhat interesting history... which I'll be brief about.  Super brief.  A fencing master's son had a bad ailment--a stroke at a very young age.  This was the left side of his brain, affecting the right side of the body.  His hand "curled".  Not much strength or control.

But the master wanted him to experience fencing.  He found experts in "comfort" and/or grip designs for whatever products required such usage (being gripped, lol!).  The design came from there, and was actually found to be pretty darn comfortable for most ANYONE. 

Still... it doesn't affect the curve of the blade--although most fencers *DO* put a curve into their blade (a few choice bends, actually) for a multitude of reasons I won't go into.  But primarily--the blades are easily more considered "straight"...

[Master Nero Attoru]

I'm not trying to be confrontational, but... the "pistol grip" for foils is simply that--the grip itself.  The remainder of the weapon is just as standard as any other foil (such as the French or even antiquated Italian grip style).

The pistol grip actually has a somewhat interesting history... which I'll be brief about.  Super brief.  A fencing master's son had a bad ailment--a stroke at a very young age.  This was the left side of his brain, affecting the right side of the body.  His hand "curled".  Not much strength or control.

But the master wanted him to experience fencing.  He found experts in "comfort" and/or grip designs for whatever products required such usage (being gripped, lol!).  The design came from there, and was actually found to be pretty darn comfortable for most ANYONE. 

Still... it doesn't affect the curve of the blade--although most fencers *DO* put a curve into their blade (a few choice bends, actually) for a multitude of reasons I won't go into.  But primarily--the blades are easily more considered "straight"...

That's a pretty interesting origin story, even after 8 years of fencing I didn't know that!  Funny how little bursts of ingenuity like that lead to fads like the pistol grip, which is one of the most popular types of grip (in foil and epee) in the world of fencing.

Not that I want to start anything either, but I figured I'd put in my two cents.  Novastar is right that the grip doesn't affect the blade curvature.  However, many fencers (myself included) tend to prefer bending their tangs so that the pistol grip (or some french grips even) have a downward angle, which to them allows for better point control.  I see this as analogous to the curved hilt which is recommended by most forms of Star Wars canon for Makashi users.

That said, I'm a Makashi stylist and I use a straight hilt, so it's really a matter of personal choice.

[JdiKnhtJMH]

I'm a big fan of the curved grip for Makashi, I feel it's just a good tradition to have, but the real key to that style's sabers is just to have something elegant and balanced and grippable.

For more info, see my 20 page lightsaber combat explanations megapost.