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Author Topic: Saberlab report: Duel wielding and saber staff in combat.  (Read 20139 times)
Darth Nonymous
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« on: June 23, 2012, 03:49:11 AM »

Greetings! VorNach and I have finished a rousing evening of dueling with the saber staff and with two sabers. Tons of fun for sure and some interesting results.

1. Contrary to what I have seen, aggressive strategy with the saber staff and /or two sabers is actually far less effective than one would be led to believe. In fact, as we switched back and forth, duel vs staff, single vs staff primarily, It was when one of us entreated the other one to over extend that we could score a hit. The result was that as we figured out the weapons, we became less aggressive, more thought flu. It was clear one must think five or six moves ahead to be able to set up a suitable trap for the other. (keep in mind that both of us have a considerable amount of experience and therefore are less likely to fall for common traps)

2. The saber "staff" is a tragic misnomer. Fighting with it, almost no staff techniques were really that applicable because one cannot grab the ends. It was a very unique experience and both of us had to have some time to learn it's uses. By the end, we had some pretty impressive exchanges and ti turned out to be a LOT of fun. Far more a game than the straight longsword type thing were usually do. I found myself drawing on Musashi (the Japanese Writer, not Makashi)far more than anyone else.

3. Duel wielding is a very good way to even the odds but ti also come with a cost. Even though against one saber there is a definite advantage by having two blades, it isn't hopeless. The same with the saber staff. But the marks of contact to be favored are the cho mai cho sun, and sun djem.

Pictures to come!
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Darth Nonymous
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2012, 04:01:27 AM »

Pics o'plenty!



Sun Djem


Cho Sun
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Darth Nonymous
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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2012, 04:07:47 AM »








Another good session of training....
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Master Bluespike74
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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2012, 04:41:23 AM »

To make sure that I am understanding the master correctly, dual sabers and double blade sabers should only be used by those with a great deal of experience and those of us with lesser experience need to stick to single blades?  Also, thanks for giving the information about the double blade not really behaving as a staff does.  I was wondering that.  Nice to have some clarification. 
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« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2012, 04:57:55 AM »

To make sure that I am understanding the master correctly, dual sabers and double blade sabers should only be used by those with a great deal of experience and those of us with lesser experience need to stick to single blades?  Also, thanks for giving the information about the double blade not really behaving as a staff does.  I was wondering that.  Nice to have some clarification. 
I'm not sure it would be divided along those lines. It's more of a strategic mind set. I done simply comes in with aggressive attack they are left open in several places. Better to hang back and let the other guy come in.

Obviously, folks with more skill will be more likely to do better, but it's not a prerequisite. there are definite challenges to duel wielding and double bladed saber in free sparring. not the least of which is the distraction of having two weapons in one hands. Often folks start to panic and forget they even have two weapons.

But yes, not a whole lot like staff.
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Master Bluespike74
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2012, 05:04:15 AM »

The reason I asked is that the only Martial Arts weapons I currently have training is Nunchakus and Bo.  My Bo instruction was not the best in the world but in my current system, I am set to receive Bo instruction when I receive my Black Belt in the Spring.  Once I acheived 1st Dan, I was thinking about purchasing a Saber Staff but now I am thinking that I'll hang back on that for the time being and get another saber for myself and one for my wife. 
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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2012, 07:46:53 AM »

My Bo instruction was not the best in the world but in my current system, I am set to receive Bo instruction when I receive my Black Belt in the Spring.  Once I acheived 1st Dan, I was thinking about purchasing a Saber Staff...
First, good luck (and impending congratulations) on that 1st Dan.
Second, as Nonymous said, staff techniques are very limited with the saber "staff". I actually got more out of the process by thinking of it as a two handed sword with a really long butt-spike.
The advantage of having 2 striking surfaces were pretty amazing, as long as you let your opponent commit to an action. There's so little time to react to that second blade as it comes around after your initial attack has been displaced.


...but now I am thinking that I'll hang back on that for the time being and get another saber for myself and one for my wife. 
Excellent, always make sure your spouse is also on board with your plans.


...dual sabers and double blade sabers should only be used by those with a great deal of experience and those of us with lesser experience need to stick to single blades?
As with many skills you can start "in the middle" so to speak; it's certainly possible to learn how to juggle by starting with 5 balls but it will probably take longer to become proficient than if you start with 3. Using a 2 handed weapon to begin with isn't necessarily more difficult than starting with a single handed weapon. In this case treating it like a staff is not the best approach. It's a different kind of weapon than most of us (myself included) have worked with and needs a different tactical perspective to apply it effectively.

One does not get from "lesser" to "greater" experience by not practicing. How you practice is entirely in your own hands.


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« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2012, 07:49:22 AM »

Another good session of training....



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Master Bluespike74
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2012, 08:25:29 AM »

[quote author=VorNach link=topic=7505.msg102509#msg102509 date=134043761hat One does not get from "lesser" to "greater" experience by not practicing. How you practice is entirely in your own hands.
[/quote]

That is very true.  I am pretty sure I word that poorly.  What I was going for was what I tell young men that brag about how big their guns are and my response is usually something like "Why do you need a .44 when a .22 will do the same thing?"  I was wanting to state that I probably need to stick with a single saber until I get more proficient with it rather than try to get proficient at the same time with a single, a double, and a double blade. 

Thanks for all the valuable information and the early congrats.

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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2012, 10:07:04 AM »

I really enjoyed the pictures. They look great
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Darth Nonymous
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« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2012, 11:36:38 AM »

[quote author=VorNach link=topic=7505.msg102509#msg102509 date=134043761hat One does not get from "lesser" to "greater" experience by not practicing. How you practice is entirely in your own hands.


That is very true.  I am pretty sure I word that poorly.  What I was going for was what I tell young men that brag about how big their guns are and my response is usually something like "Why do you need a .44 when a .22 will do the same thing?"  I was wanting to state that I probably need to stick with a single saber until I get more proficient with it rather than try to get proficient at the same time with a single, a double, and a double blade. 

Thanks for all the valuable information and the early congrats.


For what it's worth, I agree with you. this stuff is better if you have a it of experience so you can wrap your head around it. And yes, younger guys are going to fall prey to the "bigger, badder, tougher trap far more than older guys or any woman.
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« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2012, 06:33:37 PM »

Great photos, looks like you guys had a lot of fun.

Great job on the research. Points for both of you!
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Hake Felflame
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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2012, 05:44:23 AM »

So with the double-bladed saber, which forms do you think would be the best fit? I'd really like to see some video of it in a dueling situation, I'm curious how fluid it can be.
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« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2012, 07:03:22 AM »

As someone with no training what so ever, and who just spars with friends I would love to see how bad my forms and reactions actually are. The pictures were great. I am assuming you use heavy grade blades for sparring which is why you wear the protection?
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Darth Nonymous
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« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2012, 11:07:22 AM »

As someone with no training what so ever, and who just spars with friends I would love to see how bad my forms and reactions actually are. The pictures were great. I am assuming you use heavy grade blades for sparring which is why you wear the protection?
We ALWAYS wear protective gear when we spar. Those are heavy grade, but there is little difference in getting hit with either.

Head gear and gloves are bare minimum for us. We cannot stress that enough.
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