Click here for lightsabers
  • Home
  • Help
  • Login
  • Register
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 22   Go Down
Author Topic: Sith Academy: Korriban  (Read 45680 times)
Darth Logos
Sith Legend
Knight Commander
OVER 9000!!
*********

Force Alignment: -2383
Posts: 15094


Grand Theft Blue Falcon


« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2016, 11:43:05 AM »

So I agree to move away a bit from the core of the movie-line when it comes to research and contemplation. Certainly and interesting discussion. Can't wait for the jedi academy to be set up too Smiley

That has already been done.

Also there is another thread aptly named "The Force" in which people discuss their views on it. As fascinating as the subject is however, I would prefer to keep this thread more for information rather than personal ideologies.
Logged

Sig by For Tyeth

...the Force shall set me free.

Arsenal: (* w/ sound)
Scorpion*(BR)  Emerald Mantis CE* Chosen One*(BR)  Shock LE*(FO)  Archon V2.1*(CG)  Dk Prophecy(BR){Thanks Qui-Lar}  Menace CE staff*(BH) Flamberge CE*(BR)  Initiate LE V2(BR)
Dk Initiate V3(CG)  Manticore CE*(SY)  Dominix LE V3(AB)  Bellicose*(GB)  Dk Arbiter*(VA)  Dominix V4(BR)  Emperor's Hand*(DVA)  Aeon V4(GB)  Dk Initiate V4 (HP)  Project:BOOYA!

ArtoriusaurusRex
Knight Ensign
*

Force Alignment: 39
Posts: 193


From the Ashes a fire shall be woken...


« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2016, 07:43:59 AM »

Is there any reason a Sith/Darkside user couldn't be heroic? Selfless even?



Righteous anger can be a powerful emotion. Like batman, for example. He's an anger driven hero.


But, as far as I know, that's not something we see in the Star Wars universe. Why not?
Logged



A Light from the Shadow shall spring...

Darth Justicar
Knight Commander
*

Force Alignment: -565
Posts: 2582


Sun of Starkiller


« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2016, 08:40:35 AM »

It seems to be uncommon but not impossible if we take the options offered by SWTOR seriously.  Take Darth Imperius for example--the "Light Side" Inquisitor who shows a very different side to him when not being watched by those who could have him executed. There is also an example in one of the novels (the rather poorly named "Darth Gravid").
Logged

"Anger is a tool.  Use it; do not let it use you."
       --Gul Verden in Debtors' Planet by W.R. Thompson

"I'm a little Renlet, short and 'stout'
Here is my saber, watch me scream and shout!"
       --Lyrics by Jev Moldara

Flamberge BR with v4 Obsidian and 4-inch side blades

Darth Logos
Sith Legend
Knight Commander
OVER 9000!!
*********

Force Alignment: -2383
Posts: 15094


Grand Theft Blue Falcon


« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2016, 08:52:44 AM »

Is there any reason a Sith/Darkside user couldn't be heroic? Selfless even?

Righteous anger can be a powerful emotion. Like batman, for example. He's an anger driven hero.

But, as far as I know, that's not something we see in the Star Wars universe. Why not?

I will admit that most DS users act for selfish reasons, but the selfishness comes at varying levels. One of the reasons I love Starkiller (Galen Marek, not that cheesy Death Star wannabe), is because although he was trained in the dark side, he was a true believer. He felt that his service to Vader was a righteous cause. This "purity" allowed him to eventually find his own path, which inexorably led to Juno. Because of his love and/or attachment to Juno, his actions are strongly influenced by selfish motives.

When he stormed the Death Star to rescue the Rebel leaders, I feel it was more out of a need for revenge, either to directly be able to confront Vader or by releasing the Emperor's enemies. In either case, part of his motive was selfish, and he didn't care how many people were going to have a really bad day for trying to stop him. This is known as an "anti-hero" mentality. You do bad things for all the right reasons.

Another example was Bane's purge of the Brotherhood of Darkness in order to restructure the Sith Order. Again, this is a case of the true believer. Bane believed that the New Sith had grown weak with their rejection of the old ways. So he tricked Lord Kaan into using a thought bomb to wipe out the Jedi on Ruusan. It merely destroyed all Force sensitives within the blast. So in his act of treachery, Bane ended the New Sith Wars and "eliminated" the Sith, which some would consider to be a good thing, but he did so for his own ends.
Logged

Sig by For Tyeth

...the Force shall set me free.

Arsenal: (* w/ sound)
Scorpion*(BR)  Emerald Mantis CE* Chosen One*(BR)  Shock LE*(FO)  Archon V2.1*(CG)  Dk Prophecy(BR){Thanks Qui-Lar}  Menace CE staff*(BH) Flamberge CE*(BR)  Initiate LE V2(BR)
Dk Initiate V3(CG)  Manticore CE*(SY)  Dominix LE V3(AB)  Bellicose*(GB)  Dk Arbiter*(VA)  Dominix V4(BR)  Emperor's Hand*(DVA)  Aeon V4(GB)  Dk Initiate V4 (HP)  Project:BOOYA!

Vivectius
Dark Liberator of Lost Posts
Knight Commander
*

Force Alignment: -718
Posts: 2018


I always feel like he’s judging my posts.


« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2016, 05:07:50 PM »

Vaapad, according to my sources, is merely the Sith name for Juyo. Juyo is the seventh form of lightsaber cambat. Although I'm not entirely clear on the particulars, Juyo utilizes controlled use of emotion to amplify ones powers in battle. Effectively it's justified use of the Dark Side, depending how you look at it. But its secrets are carefully governed as to who it is taught to use it since it represents the silken thin line that separates Light and Dark.


Vaapad was actually the Form VII variant created by Mace Windu to channel his own emotions in combat into something that wouldn't actually lead him to the Dark Side.

See here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_VII/Legends

Is there any reason a Sith/Darkside user couldn't be heroic? Selfless even?

Righteous anger can be a powerful emotion. Like batman, for example. He's an anger driven hero.

But, as far as I know, that's not something we see in the Star Wars universe. Why not?


No, there isn't any reason, it just tends not to happen.  There are quite a number of examples throughout the Extended Universe of people doing the wrong things for the right reasons.

We don't see it because it tends to get swallowed up in bigger events, and the eventual results tend to outweigh the original motives.

Anakin turned to Palpatine for help, and ultimately to the Dark Side, because he wanted to save his wife.  I could argue that this was selfish on his part, but it's also done out of love.  But that motivation was lost to most of the galaxy to the terror of Darth Vader.

Also, we don't see it because George Lucas wanted good and evil to be in black and white.
Logged

You only live once. Wrong.
You only die once.  You live every moment of your life.
The question is, are you alive, and living your life? Or just here, and watching your life go by?
------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to death
 Nor known to life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet those hands will never hold anything
 So, as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works.

Iram
Knight Commander
*

Force Alignment: -292
Posts: 1061


Grey, leaning to the Dark Side


« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2016, 05:10:15 PM »


... I love Starkiller (Galen Marek, not that cheesy Death Star wannabe ...



That it was
Logged

BBL and proud!!!

My Sabers
Overlord (BR) Old Reliable w/ Obsidian v4 
Crimson Scorpion (VA)  w/ Obsidian v3  [Second Prize, 2016 Spring Raffle (1st)]
Dark Apprentice LE v4 (CG) Viridi Ignis 
Graflex SE (Emerald) w/Obsidian v4 [Won -50% off coupon April 2017]
Dark Sentinel LE V4 (BR)

WWJD?

Vivectius
Dark Liberator of Lost Posts
Knight Commander
*

Force Alignment: -718
Posts: 2018


I always feel like he’s judging my posts.


« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2016, 06:34:33 PM »

Opinion question for all, but particularly Darth Logos:  Do you agree with what Bane did and why he did it at Ruusan?
Logged

You only live once. Wrong.
You only die once.  You live every moment of your life.
The question is, are you alive, and living your life? Or just here, and watching your life go by?
------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to death
 Nor known to life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet those hands will never hold anything
 So, as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works.

Darth Calon
Knight Commander
*

Force Alignment: -478
Posts: 3567


Killmonger


« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2016, 07:32:46 PM »

Vaapad was actually the Form VII variant created by Mace Windu to channel his own emotions in combat into something that wouldn't actually lead him to the Dark Side.

See here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_VII/Legends


Also, I believe Windu was one of the only people who could use Vaapad without turning to the dark side.

Opinion question for all, but particularly Darth Logos:  Do you agree with what Bane did and why he did it at Ruusan?


I agree with Bane, the Sith were being weakened, so it needed to be fixed. When all the Sith Masters were "equal", it didn't let the strongest be in charge or reach their full potential. The weaker needed to be culled from the Sith, so he did that, and then went back to using the "true" weapons of the Sith.
Logged

“I invite you to my lab and you just kick things around” - Shuri

Vivectius
Dark Liberator of Lost Posts
Knight Commander
*

Force Alignment: -718
Posts: 2018


I always feel like he’s judging my posts.


« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2016, 08:19:21 PM »

Also, I believe Windu was one of the only people who could use Vaapad without turning to the dark side.

I agree with Bane, the Sith were being weakened, so it needed to be fixed. When all the Sith Masters were "equal", it didn't let the strongest be in charge or reach their full potential. The weaker needed to be culled from the Sith, so he did that, and then went back to using the "true" weapons of the Sith.


Mace was the only practitioner of Vapaad that did not turn to the Dark Side (although I almost phrased that "fall to the Dark Side" but then he did...hehe).  Sora Bulq turned to the Dark Side seduced by Dooku, and Depa Billaba went nuts, fell to the Dark Side, fell into a coma, and depending on the source, was still in the coma on the roof of the jedi temple when Ani-Vader razed the temple during Operation Knightfall.  See here for more on her, including mention that her Lightsaber skills surpassed even Master Windu's:  http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Depa_Billaba/Legends (note this is no longer canon.  Canonically, she favored Form III.  Also note that current canon is stupid, and the Legends article is much more interesting.).
Logged

You only live once. Wrong.
You only die once.  You live every moment of your life.
The question is, are you alive, and living your life? Or just here, and watching your life go by?
------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to death
 Nor known to life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet those hands will never hold anything
 So, as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works.

Iram
Knight Commander
*

Force Alignment: -292
Posts: 1061


Grey, leaning to the Dark Side


« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2016, 09:43:55 PM »

Mace was the only practitioner of Vapaad that did not turn to the Dark Side (although I almost phrased that "fall to the Dark Side" but then he did...hehe).  Sora Bulq turned to the Dark Side seduced by Dooku, and Depa Billaba went nuts, fell to the Dark Side, fell into a coma, and depending on the source, was still in the coma on the roof of the jedi temple when Ani-Vader razed the temple during Operation Knightfall.  See here for more on her, including mention that her Lightsaber skills surpassed even Master Windu's:  http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Depa_Billaba/Legends (note this is no longer canon.  Canonically, she favored Form III.  Also note that current canon is stupid, and the Legends article is much more interesting.).


Hey! that's not cool Wink mace was my fav
Logged

BBL and proud!!!

My Sabers
Overlord (BR) Old Reliable w/ Obsidian v4 
Crimson Scorpion (VA)  w/ Obsidian v3  [Second Prize, 2016 Spring Raffle (1st)]
Dark Apprentice LE v4 (CG) Viridi Ignis 
Graflex SE (Emerald) w/Obsidian v4 [Won -50% off coupon April 2017]
Dark Sentinel LE V4 (BR)

WWJD?

Darth Logos
Sith Legend
Knight Commander
OVER 9000!!
*********

Force Alignment: -2383
Posts: 15094


Grand Theft Blue Falcon


« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2016, 08:25:08 AM »

Vaapad was actually the Form VII variant created by Mace Windu to channel his own emotions in combat into something that wouldn't actually lead him to the Dark Side.

See here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_VII/Legends


That's why I qualified it with "according to my sources." I've actually heard both versions. One that Mace created the form, the other that Vapaad is the Sith name for Juyo. Similarly how Djem So and Shien are both form 5.

Opinion question for all, but particularly Darth Logos:  Do you agree with what Bane did and why he did it at Ruusan?


I do. The Brotherhood of Darkness effectively became the Dark Side Jedi Order. Kaan decreed that all were equals, and because of that the so-called Sith began to stagnate. They had also abandon the old ways of the Sith, even to the point that the title Darth was no longer being used. When Darth Bane realized what the Sith could be and what they had been, he set out to reestablish the power of the Sith by taking on the role of the Sith'ari; the one that would strengthen the Sith by destroying them. He had also theorized that by condensing the number of "vessels" the Dark Side resided in, the fuller each would be and have greater potency. Effectively two Sith would be more powerful as individuals than 1000, and similarly the Jedi would be weaker still because their numbers were so great. (I personally disagree with this because I believe the Force to be infinite, and therefore no bounds as to what can be achieved though it.) However, the radical shift in power led to an imbalance in the Force throughout the galaxy, since the number of Lightsiders grossly outnumbered the Dark. This ultimately led back to balance with the destruction of the Jedi, and the Sith of Bane's legacy knew this.

Darth Bane IMO represents the pinnacle of what it means to be Sith. Weakness must be culled in order to breed strength, and he accomplished this through any means necessary. He knew that if the Sith remained in force, the Jedi would actively oppose them. But with only two in the entire galaxy, they could be nothing more than rumor and legend; operating from the shadows, and completely unopposed.

Also, I believe Windu was one of the only people who could use Vaapad without turning to the dark side.


Again, according to my sources, Windu is quite familiar with the Dark Side. Part of his achieving the rank of Master was his return from it (same as Revan). It has also become canon (I believe) that purple blades are used by those that have come back. Seeing as how the traditional Jedi blade is blue and Sith/DS blade is red, when you combine both sides you'd get purple. (The real story however is that Sam Jackson's favorite color is purple, and he wanted to easily pick himself out of the crowd during the battle of Geonosis. Wink)
Logged

Sig by For Tyeth

...the Force shall set me free.

Arsenal: (* w/ sound)
Scorpion*(BR)  Emerald Mantis CE* Chosen One*(BR)  Shock LE*(FO)  Archon V2.1*(CG)  Dk Prophecy(BR){Thanks Qui-Lar}  Menace CE staff*(BH) Flamberge CE*(BR)  Initiate LE V2(BR)
Dk Initiate V3(CG)  Manticore CE*(SY)  Dominix LE V3(AB)  Bellicose*(GB)  Dk Arbiter*(VA)  Dominix V4(BR)  Emperor's Hand*(DVA)  Aeon V4(GB)  Dk Initiate V4 (HP)  Project:BOOYA!

ArtoriusaurusRex
Knight Ensign
*

Force Alignment: 39
Posts: 193


From the Ashes a fire shall be woken...


« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2016, 08:31:54 AM »

Speaking on colors, is Red really just traditional for Sith and the color of their synthetic crystals?


Or is there some deeper reason for the use of Red? (In lore, of course. I'm sure the real reason is just that Red looks evil-er Tongue )
Logged



A Light from the Shadow shall spring...

Darth Logos
Sith Legend
Knight Commander
OVER 9000!!
*********

Force Alignment: -2383
Posts: 15094


Grand Theft Blue Falcon


« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2016, 09:09:38 AM »

Speaking on colors, is Red really just traditional for Sith and the color of their synthetic crystals?


Or is there some deeper reason for the use of Red? (In lore, of course. I'm sure the real reason is just that Red looks evil-er Tongue )

Red is the "natural" color of a synthetic crystal, which the Sith prefer. The Jedi view synth crystals as a means of quick power, and therefore advocate the use of naturally occurring crystals.

It is also just makes better sense that the Sith attain their crystals from a source uncommon with the Jedi as it would make for an uncomfortable situation when constructing a saber. I envision a parallel to the cartoon with the sheep dog and the coyote clocking in to play their respective roles.

Jedi: "Hey Darth."
Sith: "Hey Jed."
Jedi: "Whatcha up to?"
Sith: "Looking for a crystal for my new saber, so I can start killing Jedi. You?"
Jedi: "The same. Only I plan on killing Sith."
Sith: "Yeah. Well, good luck."

It's just not going to happen.

However, due to the Empire's outlawing of lightsabers and the classification of crystal producing worlds, Luke (somehow) managed to create a green synth crystal for his new saber in ROTJ. Apparently color can be infused into a synth crystal, but the Sith generally just don't take the time to do so.
Logged

Sig by For Tyeth

...the Force shall set me free.

Arsenal: (* w/ sound)
Scorpion*(BR)  Emerald Mantis CE* Chosen One*(BR)  Shock LE*(FO)  Archon V2.1*(CG)  Dk Prophecy(BR){Thanks Qui-Lar}  Menace CE staff*(BH) Flamberge CE*(BR)  Initiate LE V2(BR)
Dk Initiate V3(CG)  Manticore CE*(SY)  Dominix LE V3(AB)  Bellicose*(GB)  Dk Arbiter*(VA)  Dominix V4(BR)  Emperor's Hand*(DVA)  Aeon V4(GB)  Dk Initiate V4 (HP)  Project:BOOYA!

Kham-Ryn Kurios
Sentinel Prime; Knight of the HoloNet Order
SaberForum.Com Moderator
Knight Commander
OVER 9000!!
*****

Force Alignment: 1718
Posts: 12460


I am Mr. Yellow.


« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2016, 09:19:15 AM »

To piggy back off of Logos:

(This is all "Legends")

"The synthetic crystals, favored by users of the dark side for their offensive properties, were impregnated with the negative energies of their creators which gave to the crystals their red color."

(Sauce: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber_crystal#Significance_of_colors)

"The Jedi Order had an advanced technique that allowed, in case of need, the cleaning of synthetic crystals made by Dark Side users from the hate of their former owners. In 41 ABY, Jaden Korr, who had lost his lightsaber, used the Force to banish the Dark Side from the red crystal of a Dark Jedi he had killed. Through meditation, he was able to remove all traces of the Dark Side and imbue the crystal with the Light Side, turning the Dark Jedi's lightsaber into a yellow-bladed Jedi weapon."

(Sauce: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber_crystal#Preparation)
________________

I would assume that since Luke's crystal is synthetic, but made from the opposite end of the force spectrum, that is why his turned out green.
Logged


/LIGHT SIDE POINTS PLEASE\
‎Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Darth Logos
Sith Legend
Knight Commander
OVER 9000!!
*********

Force Alignment: -2383
Posts: 15094


Grand Theft Blue Falcon


« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2016, 09:26:36 AM »

To piggy back off of Logos:

(This is all "Legends")

"The synthetic crystals, favored by users of the dark side for their offensive properties, were impregnated with the negative energies of their creators which gave to the crystals their red color."

(Sauce: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber_crystal#Significance_of_colors)

"The Jedi Order had an advanced technique that allowed, in case of need, the cleaning of synthetic crystals made by Dark Side users from the hate of their former owners. In 41 ABY, Jaden Korr, who had lost his lightsaber, used the Force to banish the Dark Side from the red crystal of a Dark Jedi he had killed. Through meditation, he was able to remove all traces of the Dark Side and imbue the crystal with the Light Side, turning the Dark Jedi's lightsaber into a yellow-bladed Jedi weapon."

(Sauce: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber_crystal#Preparation)
________________

I would assume that since Luke's crystal is synthetic, but made from the opposite end of the force spectrum, that is why his turned out green.


Apparently the source references have changed since I last read it.
Logged

Sig by For Tyeth

...the Force shall set me free.

Arsenal: (* w/ sound)
Scorpion*(BR)  Emerald Mantis CE* Chosen One*(BR)  Shock LE*(FO)  Archon V2.1*(CG)  Dk Prophecy(BR){Thanks Qui-Lar}  Menace CE staff*(BH) Flamberge CE*(BR)  Initiate LE V2(BR)
Dk Initiate V3(CG)  Manticore CE*(SY)  Dominix LE V3(AB)  Bellicose*(GB)  Dk Arbiter*(VA)  Dominix V4(BR)  Emperor's Hand*(DVA)  Aeon V4(GB)  Dk Initiate V4 (HP)  Project:BOOYA!

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 22   Go Up
Send this topic | Print
Jump to: