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Author Topic: sabre staff cutting dirll, guards and plays  (Read 13780 times)
Westmoore
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Posts: 94


temple guards


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« on: March 11, 2016, 03:19:24 PM »

Hi I found little information on how to use the sabre as a staff so thought id start this thread,

I have experience in HEMA, passed my prize play in longsword and messer, this doesn't mean I'm amazing just that I understand how to freefence safely and have a concept of how to not die...

I wanted to start this so sabre staff fighters have one resource
I have started with a couple of the basic cuts...with a little added staff flare....ok I maintained the hand rotation to allow around 3 strike per 1 normal strike
Below is hopefully the video with descending horizontal and ascending strikes on both sides
This is followed by my interpretation of the longsword guards adapting them to the differing hand positions based on which blade I have put forward

comments and peoples own videos would be really appreciated hoping to do some videos of some plays possible from some of the guards at the weekend

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFGAGQO3VqE&amp;feature=youtu.be" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFGAGQO3VqE&amp;feature=youtu.be</a>


Let me know what you think from this temple guard in training
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Morgoth136
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Force Alignment: -44
Posts: 194



« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2016, 05:51:53 PM »

Those are some good moves, the temple will be safer with you there. I'm definitely gunna learn from this
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"The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. "

check out my lightsaber dueling group, the scions of the balance
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvTovNQK2fuAfSE6J46K0rg

Westmoore
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Force Alignment: 23
Posts: 94


temple guards


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« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2016, 06:00:55 PM »

Thanks Morgoth136!! hope to see some of your moves on here soon Cheesy
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Morgoth136
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Force Alignment: -44
Posts: 194



« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2016, 07:22:38 PM »

im hoping to do some more fighting and ill put it up, i want to get used to a double bladed saber before i attempt to fight, my friends are pretty good so i dont want to humiliate myself or hit myself in the face. i really like your mask btw
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"The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. "

check out my lightsaber dueling group, the scions of the balance
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvTovNQK2fuAfSE6J46K0rg

Westmoore
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Force Alignment: 23
Posts: 94


temple guards


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« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2016, 08:17:29 PM »

The double blade has a massive advantage over single sabers
We found the single has to work twice as fast and most defences by single actually assist the double in attacking

N thank you making the full outfit but a practical version to fence ( with lightsabers)
Will start a thread on that when I get a little more time Smiley
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Abyss
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Force Alignment: 10
Posts: 62


« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2016, 10:54:23 PM »

I don't know if a double bladed saber has a massive advantage over single sabers. A staff may have a defensive advantage over a sword, and I've tested that with padded staff versus shinais, but you can't block with the center part of a double bladed lightsaber. Best result when you try that is two lightsabers. Worst result is you get two dead lightsabers and a blade in your face. Ooooof course that's with blades that actually cut, but ya'know, you have to act like they do...
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Neither Light nor Dark are superior. Rigid denial of self and blood obedience to dogma is just as oppressive as abandonment to base passions and unchecked pursuit of power. Do the good you can for whom you can, but do not succumb to either extreme.

I may be Gray, but I lean Light, so those points are appreciated.

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Westmoore
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Force Alignment: 23
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temple guards


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« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2016, 11:35:17 PM »

True the center is of no use to block but that's not the part I've been using to block
the techniques of longsword carry through well

Hopefully when I have some videos of differing plays I can show this Cheesy
but using a staff against a single saber there is a noticeable advantage
have you spared using a single against double lightsaber before abyss just wondered Smiley
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Abyss
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« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2016, 11:44:48 PM »

Alas, I haven't sparred using a double bladed lightsaber yet. I don't own one, though I do plan on getting one when I'm able. I have, however, sparred wielding a padded bo staff against a shinai, wielded by someone with a bit more training than I. I struck him more often than he struck me, so I do agree there's an advantage there.
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Neither Light nor Dark are superior. Rigid denial of self and blood obedience to dogma is just as oppressive as abandonment to base passions and unchecked pursuit of power. Do the good you can for whom you can, but do not succumb to either extreme.

I may be Gray, but I lean Light, so those points are appreciated.

SRD Apprentice v4, BR Dark Apprentice v4

Westmoore
Knight Sergeant
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Force Alignment: 23
Posts: 94


temple guards


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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2016, 11:51:28 PM »

You'll love it when you get one they are very cool Cheesy
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Abyss
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Force Alignment: 10
Posts: 62


« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2016, 11:59:51 PM »

Oh, I'm sure I will! I seem to have better intuition for staves and polearms over the shorter weapons, so I'd probably either get the yari extensions, or get a vented coupler and use that to attach a wooden extension to form a lightnaginata. Cheaper than the aluminum that's for sure.
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Neither Light nor Dark are superior. Rigid denial of self and blood obedience to dogma is just as oppressive as abandonment to base passions and unchecked pursuit of power. Do the good you can for whom you can, but do not succumb to either extreme.

I may be Gray, but I lean Light, so those points are appreciated.

SRD Apprentice v4, BR Dark Apprentice v4

Westmoore
Knight Sergeant
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Force Alignment: 23
Posts: 94


temple guards


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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2016, 12:03:51 AM »

Yeah I put a pike between the sentinel staff makes it feel much more like a staff....also makes it massive couple of the guys find it unwieldy but being just over 6ft it's alright...just
Cheesy
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Abyss
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Force Alignment: 10
Posts: 62


« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2016, 12:07:41 AM »

Sounds a bit unwieldy for me, since I'm closer to five and a half than I am too six foot. But then again my naginata plan is for a weapon taller than I am.
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Neither Light nor Dark are superior. Rigid denial of self and blood obedience to dogma is just as oppressive as abandonment to base passions and unchecked pursuit of power. Do the good you can for whom you can, but do not succumb to either extreme.

I may be Gray, but I lean Light, so those points are appreciated.

SRD Apprentice v4, BR Dark Apprentice v4

Vivectius
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I always feel like he’s judging my posts.


« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2016, 01:26:21 AM »

The double blade has a massive advantage over single sabers
We found the single has to work twice as fast and most defences by single actually assist the double in attacking

N thank you making the full outfit but a practical version to fence ( with lightsabers)
Will start a thread on that when I get a little more time Smiley

I look forward to seeing more.

But I also disagree that the double blade has a massive advantage.  You can only attack with one blade at a time, and while blocking one end can push the other towards you assisting the Saberstaff in an attack, there's a very limited number of angles that attack can come from.  Against a Saberstaff the most important thing to realize is that you don't need to keep track of both blades, which is what most people try to do.  You need to realize that if you know where one blade is, you automatically know where the other one is, and at any point while one is swinging towards you, the other is always moving away from you. 

While I have not sparred single Lightsaber against Saberstaff, I have sparred extensively with single bokken against bo staff, which is much more challenging, since the staff user can use the entire staff.

This issues I have with the techniques in the video are these (and these are my opinions, they are not meant to be taken as me saying you're doing it wrong or anything like that):

1) I personally hate raising my weapon much above my forehead, and I rarely raise it that high.  It's asking to at best get cut across the stomach, or at worst, be cut in half.  Or my preferred target, you'd lose a leg if you're lucky, or I'd hit what I usually aim for in your femoral artery if you're not lucky.

2) I find that crossing my arms that much, with a sword or staff is asking for trouble, since you then have to "unwind" yourself.  Now that unwinding can become attacks in their own right, but getting that twisted up is awkward at best, and at worst your opponent avoids your attack or blocks to the opposit side and locks you in place with your arms twisted.  You can try to push your way out, but there have been so many times when my opponent has tried that only to push my blade into themselves. 

3) Follow through with multiple strikes is good, but if the first strike is blocked or parried, then where do you go, since your second and third strikes are no longer possible?

I've always found it amusing that in the Star Wars universe, the Saberstaff was considered to be too much of an offensive weapon, when its greatest strengths lie in it being used defensively. While you can only attack with one blade at a time, and doing so moves the other blade away from your opponent, you can block and push/parry your opponents blade defensively, allowing you to bring the other end around as you push your opponent's blade away. In that case, your opponent's blade is moving away from you, while your other blade comes in.

As I said, I do look forward to seeing more, since there is a shortage of Saberstaff combat information, and if you're anywhere within a couple hours or so drive of me, I'd love to get together to spar and see how our experiences compare.
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You only live once. Wrong.
You only die once.  You live every moment of your life.
The question is, are you alive, and living your life? Or just here, and watching your life go by?
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I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to death
 Nor known to life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet those hands will never hold anything
 So, as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works.

Abyss
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Posts: 62


« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2016, 02:06:06 AM »

This conversation makes me think... Cortosis is an ore which shows up in the old expanded universe. What if a double bladed staff user integrated cortosis weave into the hilt of their staff? That would allow for the use of the center section for blade contact. Such a modification would also increase the utility of light polearms.
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Neither Light nor Dark are superior. Rigid denial of self and blood obedience to dogma is just as oppressive as abandonment to base passions and unchecked pursuit of power. Do the good you can for whom you can, but do not succumb to either extreme.

I may be Gray, but I lean Light, so those points are appreciated.

SRD Apprentice v4, BR Dark Apprentice v4

Westmoore
Knight Sergeant
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Force Alignment: 23
Posts: 94


temple guards


WWW
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2016, 10:43:28 AM »

Abyss
oooo this is a great idea I've heard people saying that it would make sense to make weapons like the staff and light pikes etc from lightsaber resistant materials as they have such big targets very cool idea

Vivectius
love your view and these are the issues I hope can be addressed with proper techniques.
not arguing with anything you said just going to explain why I did some of the things you found flaws in Smiley

1 the high guard this was used as it's a position all the cuts can be thrown from so for cutting practice made sense but I agree the body becomes a target but knowing that hopefully some of the plays can use this....to be explored Smiley

2 some of the arm positions are not comfortable for defences being intercepted at the wrong point would be bad!! The intent was just to use the full range of the staff an unexpected cut could be all you need....definitely to be explored Smiley

3 if any of the cuts were intercepted a different line would be needed!!!strong vs strong isn't the way to go so changing the line after each cut is definitely the right shout this was just a very basic drill but I will look at drills involving changing the line after coming to each hanging Smiley

I will hopefully get some more done today (saber partner pending) I'll try and look at some of the points then Smiley
I'm always up for some extra practice I'm in England which I expect is probably a plane ride away Wink
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