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Author Topic: Canon Info on Kyber Crystals  (Read 32724 times)
Isola815
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« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2017, 06:14:00 PM »

That may be older pitcures or artist renderings. In TCW, the episode that shows the cave, the crystals are hidden and clear (very pale blue), but they don't show the caves in the films. So far, the only thing we've seen in the films are the crystals in Rogue One, and those are clear.


Must be The Clone Wars movie then. Has that been removed from Canon?

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Darth Tepes
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« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2017, 06:40:44 PM »

Must be The Clone Wars movie then. Has that been removed from Canon?




That is from the Clone Wars micro series that was released before Ep. III.  When the CGI Clone Wars came out the micro series was made non-canon.
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Isola815
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« Reply #47 on: February 19, 2017, 12:59:18 AM »

That is from the Clone Wars micro series that was released before Ep. III.  When the CGI Clone Wars came out the micro series was made non-canon.

Great, thanks Smiley that had been in the back of my mind a bit any time I thought about Kyber crystals being clear. Glad to know there was a reason for it being different.
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Obese Wan Kenobese
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« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2017, 04:46:12 AM »

If no one already mentioned it, kyber crystals can be found on multiple planets and of many various sizes, as stated in Catalyst. A novel prequel to Rogue One. Kyberite veins are mostly made of fake kyber, but real kyber can be found amongst it. Energy applied to the crystals can change their size, and compression can cause them to change size while giving off energy. Erso came up with synthetic kyber, but it never performed the same. The Jedi knew there was some kind of great power potential with kyber crystals, so they prevented it's exchange on black markets and the like. Kyber crystals also were known to affect dreams and cause insomnia.
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JdiKnhtJMH
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« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2017, 06:35:06 AM »

Qui-Gon's saber is not seen again.  It might be with Obi-wan, it might have been discarded some how.   It is possible it became Luke's.   

I think that there was a canon-inspired Obi Wan figure of Old Obi Wan circa Tatooine that came out where he carried his and Qui Gon's lightsabers both. I read the article a while ago but it seems to be implied that Luke may have used Qui Gon's crystal in making his lightsaber.
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Darth Tepes
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« Reply #50 on: March 19, 2017, 08:57:05 AM »

I think that there was a canon-inspired Obi Wan figure of Old Obi Wan circa Tatooine that came out where he carried his and Qui Gon's lightsabers both. I read the article a while ago but it seems to be implied that Luke may have used Qui Gon's crystal in making his lightsaber.

It's a Theory but no conformation yet. 
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Taegin Roan
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« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2018, 10:53:39 PM »

So, to get this conversation started again.

I don't particularly have a problem with Disney's interpretation and explanation of how saber crystals work. I do think they have not fully fleshed it out yet, so it still needs a lot of work. However, at the same time, I don't like the fact that Disney completely did away with all the rest of the crystals and how they worked. In the Fan Fiction section, Karmack (and LSG and TD a little) has done quite a bit of work with crystals, incorporating both Disney's canon and EU into the mix, and has given us something absolutely beautiful that fits in with both Canon as well as Legends, and actually seems like it could be possible. For any of you who have read the stories, and any who want to join the discussion, what do you think about the current status of Lightsaber Crystals in Canon, Legends, and Fan Fic?
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scifidude79
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« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2018, 11:05:42 PM »

Good to have this discussion back up and running. I'll post my thoughts on the matter later, as I'm about to take a shower and go to work. (I'll have time to post my thoughts during the bus ride to work)
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scifidude79
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« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2018, 04:19:51 AM »

OK, wall of text inbound.

For starters, let's go over how crystals work in the EU. In the EU, Adegan crystals are used to focus a power stream and create a lightsaber blade. The crystals are a variety of colors and they give the saber its color. They grow naturally in caves and can be harvested to be used in lightsabers. These caves are few and far between, and are often dangerous. Finding and harvesting a crystal is one of the trials a young Jedi has to complete before building their lightsaber. In the non crippled version, (AKA, not in a game) an apprentice does this before attaining the rank of Padawan. There are other types of crystals that can be added to a saber to change things like blade length and power levels. One of the reasons Anakin's saber had so many controls was because he had a multi crystal setup and could change various things about his blade. Luke actually used these at various points in the EU. Adegan crystals are rare, though, and sought after due to being reactive to the Force.

In other circumstances, Jedi could use other kinds of crystals. Ilum crystals are more common than Adegan crystals and, thus, were more commonly used. They were almost as good as Adegan crystals and their abundance causes them to be more commonly used, until the Great Jedi Purge. (order 66) I believe the crystal caves on Ilum were destroyed by the Empire, making even Ilum crystals rare. Unlike Adegan crystals, Ilum crystals were usually blue and green, thus so many green and blue blades in the Rise of the Empire era.

In the absence of either natural focusing crystal, a Jedi, Sith or prospective Jedi or Sith could "bake" a synthetic crystal. While (technically) the easiest way to acquire a crystal, this too was not without its challenges. In order to be useful in a lightsaber, the Force user had to meditate during the creation process to embue the crystal with Force energy. Sith created very powerful crystals doing this. The process took 24 hours and a lot of intense meditation to create a lightsaber crystal, and failure meant having to start over. Sith always used synthetic crystals and most synthetic crystals came out red due to the forging process, but it was possible to tweak the materials and create other colors. For example, due to the rareness of Adegan and Ilum crystals, Luke Skywalker created a green synthetic crystal for his lightsaber.

The Kaiburr (pronounced: kyber) crystal. Ah, the Kaiburr crystal. Not a lightsaber crystal, but it's still necessary to cover this due to the sound alike name. In early drafts for the first film, George Lucas had the action focused around the search for the Kaiburr crystal. When he hired Alan Dean Foster to ghost write the novelization, he agreed to let Foster write a follow-up that could be filmed as a low budget sequel, should the first movie flop. (always good to have a backup plan) Foster decided to use Lucas's unused Kaiburr crystal idea. When the movie was a success, Lucas agreed to publish Foster's story as a novel. The novel, Splinter of the Mind's Eye
is the first novel in the EU. The novel follows Luke and Leia as they race Vader to find a mystic power crystal called the Kaiburr crystal. It enhances a Force user's power, that's why Vader wants it. The crystal wasn't a lightsaber crystal and lost its power when removed from the temple where it was found.

Now for canon. Kyber crystals are naturally occurring white crystals used in constructing lightsabers, among other things. Much like an Adegan and Ilum crystal, they grow in caves and young Jedi have to retrieve them. Then they have to meditate over them and can turn them green or blue. No other colors. Sith can "bleed"
them to turn them red. That's it. They were also used in the Death Star.

Now for issues. No other colors means Mace Windu's and the Temple Guard sabers can't be justified. Also, there's a question about how the Death Star laser was green. There's the fact that they took a much more complex crystal lore and turned it into a "They're magic" kind of simplistic thinking. Then there's the whole Kaiburr crystal thing. They seem to think that creating a sound alike will make it a cool callback to that and fans will like it. The same thinking went into putting a planet named Delta Vega in the Vulcan system in 2009's Star Trek. That didn't go over well either. Those are my main issues.
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For Tyeth
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« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2018, 05:01:44 AM »

Well covered SFD, about the only things I'd add are that canon wise, crystals which have bled can now be healed turning them white.

Second there was the Hurrikaine crystal that explains Mace Windu's blade as far as the EU is concerned. However the Hurrikaine was possibly the rarest crystal out there. He was gifted around half a dozen Hurrikaine crystals from the native species of the planet Hurikane (they had skin covered in crystal) after a mission he completed as a Padawan. Later the purple crystals were named Windu's Guile in his honour.

Hurrikaine crystals first appeared in Star Wars Tales #13 and KOTOR II The Sith Lords. And I found this rather neat textless cover image from that issue of Windu and the purple blade.
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Darth Tepes
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« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2018, 10:52:01 AM »

OK, wall of text inbound.

For starters, let's go over how crystals work in the EU. In the EU, Adegan crystals are used to focus a power stream and create a lightsaber blade. The crystals are a variety of colors and they give the saber its color. They grow naturally in caves and can be harvested to be used in lightsabers. These caves are few and far between, and are often dangerous. Finding and harvesting a crystal is one of the trials a young Jedi has to complete before building their lightsaber. In the non crippled version, (AKA, not in a game) an apprentice does this before attaining the rank of Padawan. There are other types of crystals that can be added to a saber to change things like blade length and power levels. One of the reasons Anakin's saber had so many controls was because he had a multi crystal setup and could change various things about his blade. Luke actually used these at various points in the EU. Adegan crystals are rare, though, and sought after due to being reactive to the Force.

In other circumstances, Jedi could use other kinds of crystals. Ilum crystals are more common than Adegan crystals and, thus, were more commonly used. They were almost as good as Adegan crystals and their abundance causes them to be more commonly used, until the Great Jedi Purge. (order 66) I believe the crystal caves on Ilum were destroyed by the Empire, making even Ilum crystals rare. Unlike Adegan crystals, Ilum crystals were usually blue and green, thus so many green and blue blades in the Rise of the Empire era.

In the absence of either natural focusing crystal, a Jedi, Sith or prospective Jedi or Sith could "bake" a synthetic crystal. While (technically) the easiest way to acquire a crystal, this too was not without its challenges. In order to be useful in a lightsaber, the Force user had to meditate during the creation process to embue the crystal with Force energy. Sith created very powerful crystals doing this. The process took 24 hours and a lot of intense meditation to create a lightsaber crystal, and failure meant having to start over. Sith always used synthetic crystals and most synthetic crystals came out red due to the forging process, but it was possible to tweak the materials and create other colors. For example, due to the rareness of Adegan and Ilum crystals, Luke Skywalker created a green synthetic crystal for his lightsaber.

The Kaiburr (pronounced: kyber) crystal. Ah, the Kaiburr crystal. Not a lightsaber crystal, but it's still necessary to cover this due to the sound alike name. In early drafts for the first film, George Lucas had the action focused around the search for the Kaiburr crystal. When he hired Alan Dean Foster to ghost write the novelization, he agreed to let Foster write a follow-up that could be filmed as a low budget sequel, should the first movie flop. (always good to have a backup plan) Foster decided to use Lucas's unused Kaiburr crystal idea. When the movie was a success, Lucas agreed to publish Foster's story as a novel. The novel, Splinter of the Mind's Eye
is the first novel in the EU. The novel follows Luke and Leia as they race Vader to find a mystic power crystal called the Kaiburr crystal. It enhances a Force user's power, that's why Vader wants it. The crystal wasn't a lightsaber crystal and lost its power when removed from the temple where it was found.

Now for canon. Kyber crystals are naturally occurring white crystals used in constructing lightsabers, among other things. Much like an Adegan and Ilum crystal, they grow in caves and young Jedi have to retrieve them. Then they have to meditate over them and can turn them green or blue. No other colors. Sith can "bleed"
them to turn them red. That's it. They were also used in the Death Star.

Now for issues. No other colors means Mace Windu's and the Temple Guard sabers can't be justified. Also, there's a question about how the Death Star laser was green. There's the fact that they took a much more complex crystal lore and turned it into a "They're magic" kind of simplistic thinking. Then there's the whole Kaiburr crystal thing. They seem to think that creating a sound alike will make it a cool callback to that and fans will like it. The same thinking went into putting a planet named Delta Vega in the Vulcan system in 2009's Star Trek. That didn't go over well either. Those are my main issues.

As far as I have seen they have never out right stated the can be no other colors, they just haven't explained them yet.  Ahsoka's white/silver blades have been explained.  Of all the changes Disney has made, this one I have the least problem with.  Star Wars seems to be making a shift toward focusing on Non-Force users..or pushing them to the background and honestly, that is the only thing about Tsar Wars I like.  So the more Force stuff the better to me.   
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Infinit01
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« Reply #56 on: September 25, 2018, 11:32:54 AM »

OK, wall of text inbound.

For starters, let's go over how crystals work in the EU. In the EU, Adegan crystals are used to focus a power stream and create a lightsaber blade. The crystals are a variety of colors and they give the saber its color. They grow naturally in caves and can be harvested to be used in lightsabers. These caves are few and far between, and are often dangerous. Finding and harvesting a crystal is one of the trials a young Jedi has to complete before building their lightsaber. In the non crippled version, (AKA, not in a game) an apprentice does this before attaining the rank of Padawan. There are other types of crystals that can be added to a saber to change things like blade length and power levels. One of the reasons Anakin's saber had so many controls was because he had a multi crystal setup and could change various things about his blade. Luke actually used these at various points in the EU. Adegan crystals are rare, though, and sought after due to being reactive to the Force.

In other circumstances, Jedi could use other kinds of crystals. Ilum crystals are more common than Adegan crystals and, thus, were more commonly used. They were almost as good as Adegan crystals and their abundance causes them to be more commonly used, until the Great Jedi Purge. (order 66) I believe the crystal caves on Ilum were destroyed by the Empire, making even Ilum crystals rare. Unlike Adegan crystals, Ilum crystals were usually blue and green, thus so many green and blue blades in the Rise of the Empire era.

In the absence of either natural focusing crystal, a Jedi, Sith or prospective Jedi or Sith could "bake" a synthetic crystal. While (technically) the easiest way to acquire a crystal, this too was not without its challenges. In order to be useful in a lightsaber, the Force user had to meditate during the creation process to embue the crystal with Force energy. Sith created very powerful crystals doing this. The process took 24 hours and a lot of intense meditation to create a lightsaber crystal, and failure meant having to start over. Sith always used synthetic crystals and most synthetic crystals came out red due to the forging process, but it was possible to tweak the materials and create other colors. For example, due to the rareness of Adegan and Ilum crystals, Luke Skywalker created a green synthetic crystal for his lightsaber.

The Kaiburr (pronounced: kyber) crystal. Ah, the Kaiburr crystal. Not a lightsaber crystal, but it's still necessary to cover this due to the sound alike name. In early drafts for the first film, George Lucas had the action focused around the search for the Kaiburr crystal. When he hired Alan Dean Foster to ghost write the novelization, he agreed to let Foster write a follow-up that could be filmed as a low budget sequel, should the first movie flop. (always good to have a backup plan) Foster decided to use Lucas's unused Kaiburr crystal idea. When the movie was a success, Lucas agreed to publish Foster's story as a novel. The novel, Splinter of the Mind's Eye
is the first novel in the EU. The novel follows Luke and Leia as they race Vader to find a mystic power crystal called the Kaiburr crystal. It enhances a Force user's power, that's why Vader wants it. The crystal wasn't a lightsaber crystal and lost its power when removed from the temple where it was found.

Now for canon. Kyber crystals are naturally occurring white crystals used in constructing lightsabers, among other things. Much like an Adegan and Ilum crystal, they grow in caves and young Jedi have to retrieve them. Then they have to meditate over them and can turn them green or blue. No other colors. Sith can "bleed"
them to turn them red. That's it. They were also used in the Death Star.

Now for issues. No other colors means Mace Windu's and the Temple Guard sabers can't be justified. Also, there's a question about how the Death Star laser was green. There's the fact that they took a much more complex crystal lore and turned it into a "They're magic" kind of simplistic thinking. Then there's the whole Kaiburr crystal thing. They seem to think that creating a sound alike will make it a cool callback to that and fans will like it. The same thinking went into putting a planet named Delta Vega in the Vulcan system in 2009's Star Trek. That didn't go over well either. Those are my main issues.

Great history with the Adegan and Ilum crystals, SFD. Have a point. Just as we started our discussion on the other post, I agree with you about the whole canon crystal that Disney has started.  I'm still leaning towards the Adegan crystal, canon or not since it's a much better story and has better characteristics than Disney's Kyber crystal which as you pointed out, has some loops holes.   Another one is how did Palpatine bleed his crystal if he started out as a Dark side apprentice?   He killed a Jedi or Padawan to get it?  It's a lazy way to tell a story in my opinion since to me, you can only tell the same story about a Sith killing a Jedi to bleed a Kyber crystal so many times before it gets boring.  Where the Adegan crystals were well thought of, it didn't seem like the Kyber crystal were thought up as well as it's predecessor (if we even want to call it that). 

Sure, maybe Disney is developing a story line to explain it all so we'll just have to wait but until then, some of the stuff just doesn't make any sense and it makes stories like Mace Windu's irrelevant and he's canon.  It just appears to me that Disney is just trying to bleed out more stories with this whole Kyber crystal thing hence the Darth Vader comic series that came out last year explaining the Kyber Crystal.  I get it, they're trying to make more money and tell more stories but it left a lot to be desired in my opinion.  Maybe it'll get better and things will be explained but I'm not holding my breath either.
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scifidude79
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« Reply #57 on: September 25, 2018, 12:18:37 PM »

Another one is how did Palpatine bleed his crystal if he started out as a Dark side apprentice?   He killed a Jedi or Padawan to get it?  It's a lazy way to tell a story in my opinion since to me, you can only tell the same story about a Sith killing a Jedi to bleed a Kyber crystal so many times before it gets boring.  Where the Adegan crystals were well thought of, it didn't seem like the Kyber crystal were thought up as well as it's predecessor (if we even want to call it that). 

Yes, basically. That's the only way a Sith can get a crystal. They can't mine them themselves, so they have to steal them from the Jedi.

Though, in the EU, Sith aren't even required to build lightsabers. Their masters give them lightsabers when they're ready. (remember, quick and easy path) Of course, some would go on to build their own, but it wasn't a requirement of being Sith, like it is for Jedi.
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Dauntless Seven
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« Reply #58 on: September 25, 2018, 06:45:08 PM »

Here's a few larger crystals... the colors are naturally created by the Force.  Smiley






Am really enjoying this discussion and learning lots.  Thanks.  Smiley
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« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2018, 07:37:25 PM »

Yes, basically. That's the only way a Sith can get a crystal. They can't mine them themselves, so they have to steal them from the Jedi.

Though, in the EU, Sith aren't even required to build lightsabers. Their masters give them lightsabers when they're ready. (remember, quick and easy path) Of course, some would go on to build their own, but it wasn't a requirement of being Sith, like it is for Jedi.

It'll be a short story for any Sith then since it would be around the same way they would receive or build their first lightsaber: killing Jedi to retrieve and corrupt a crystal or have a lightsaber given to the Apprentice.  Stories like Kyle Katarn who eventually builds an orange saber or the story of Nomi Sunrider and the Sun Rider's Destiny crystal, etc. These stories are far more interesting and engaging that we both know but now, they're Legends.  In my eyes, their canon to me.  I like to refer the present "canon" as "Disney canon"

Here's a few larger crystals... the colors are naturally created by the Force.  Smiley






Am really enjoying this discussion and learning lots.  Thanks.  Smiley

Beautiful crystals indeed. Did you grow those, D7?  I'm glad that you got this discussion resurrected, I've been wanting to discuss this for quite some time now.

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