On approaching the "multiple opponents" concept... (by Nova)

[Novastar]

Onk Bak 2 and Tony Jaa... yeah... that is the BOMB!    High level stuff, no doubt.  I absolutely love him, Jackie Chan, Donnie Yen, Michelle Yeoh, Jet Li and many others.

That being said--it's important to remember a few things about filmed work (some of which, of course, applies to live work as well):

* Timing is SOOOooooo important!  The fighters must actually work "together" (does that sound odd) to achieve the feeling that everything is occurring "logically", and that no one is (generally) waiting to get hit.

* You will rarely ever see what's on "the cutting room floor"... that is to say--how many takes/shots/tries they made that DIDN'T work or didn't look right... in order to get the "perfect" shot for each action sequence.  What you can appreciate for CERTAIN... is if they do a very LONG, unedited shot... consisting of 15+ moves/actions or more--in which case you know that they REALLY did an excellent amount of work!

* Editing is the action filmmaker's friend.    Excellent editing is the action filmmaker's GODSEND!  No matter what, even professionals will make mistakes, and they can rarely do 20+ actions/moves without making a mistake, especially when there are complicated acrobatics, martial arts and wild costumes/weapons involved.  In that case, editing becomes VERY important in order to maintain the "contiguous" feel of everything... so that your mind BELIEVES that the whole scene is taking place all at once, all at the same time, no "breaks" in the action

* Training YOUR body (mine, yours, anyone's) to the level that Tony Jaa is at... takes YEEEEEAAAARRSS!!  And also luck + talent + hard work "behind the scenes".

* Finally, you all may not know this, but... it's actually the NON-STAR actors that can make the action star look reeeeaaallly good!  They have to do the right amount of preparation/waiting/timing to be in the ideal position for (in this case) Tony Jaa to look good.  And sometimes... they have to get hit, too!    Really get hit.  Not super hard, but... yeah... sometimes it happens (sometimes, it's even called for).  So... the supporting performers REALLY have to help make the star look good too.

All this is not to discredit an action star's hard work... on the contrary, it just shows that more than one factor is going into the "movie fight" where multiple opponents are coming after one guy.

If I had to sum it all up in a single word... it would have to be "timing".  Everyone getting the timing down so precisely--it flows like water, looks like magic... and achieves the result: the ILLUSION of "deadly combat". 

[Kham-Ryn Kurios]

Thailand should have a Tony Jaa ward in their hospitals lol, because I'm fairly certain he's beat the crap out of every actor and stunt man in Thailand lol.

[Master Lucien Kane]

So bummed I didn't have a camera person today, got to meet a new friend today and duel with them, and one of my good friends showed up to duel as well. We had a blast, and I got to do some two on one dueling, and some unarmed, vs. armed practice. My friend who duels with me often used two sabers while my new friend used one against me... I got tagged a couple of times, but I consistently held my own against the two, both skilled duelists. It's unfortunate that I don't have video to back this up, especially since on the internet everyone seems to be a professional.... I assure you I'm not a professional, but I do have an affinity for some of the things that are necessary for dealing with multiple opponents.

These things are

Timing: Novastar put it fantastically timing is a big part of dueling anyone, and if you can get good timing and battle rhythm down then you can really take your dueling to the next level.

Footwork: if you have amazing footwork, and knowledge of how to evade, you can block one opponent while dodging the other. This is very hard and you are still at a disadvantage, but if you can manage this you can last long enough to get an opening and take one of your opponents out of the fight.

Strategy: Evasion is nothing if you don't do anything with it, if you can maneuver your opponents to work against each other you can win by putting them in each others way. This is the whole using the environment, and knowing your surroundings.... basically everything Miyamoto Musashi teaches in Book of Five Rings.

Stamina: To utilize strategy you need to be able to out maneuver two people, this requires a great degree of stamina so that you can run, block, and counter to stay steps ahead of your opponents.

Speed: You need speed to be able to block two people at once, especially if one is dual wielding, nuff said.

Technique: Speed is nothing without technique, and technique can give you the tools to defeat multiple opponents, but only if they are muscle memory.

There are more, but it's something that books can be written about.

Disarms, I did an amazing disarm today, I got inside the blade, and my friend and I went down to the ground and got into a grappling match over the saber. Minor grazing on both sides, but I eventually wrested the saber from his grasp and got the upper hand. Once again though it's really hard and you are at a disadvantage, but as Master Novastar so eloquently put it, it's all about timing!

Sorry for the wall O' text

[Kham-Ryn Kurios]

I didn't mind the read.

I agree. I love the positive input that everyone gives each other about fighting.

[RoryLyndze]

I find its eassier to take on 2 people with my double bladed light saber but thats me

[Kham-Ryn Kurios]

I find its eassier to take on 2 people with my double bladed light saber but thats me

You must move pretty fast.

[RoryLyndze]

I use to befor i messed up my knee and right shoulder but i all so work better with adisadvantige it pushis me and i use thare over coffidce agenst them and the turain i have to fight smarter now that i lost spee

[RoryLyndze]

I want to throw this out thare. What about the battales throgh history when armies and soldies were out numberd ten to one and still won i think it varry plassable to he out number and win is it easy no far from it but you need to use the terain and to circal wright to keep both of then in front of you if you do this wright you can back the in to a car or a corner but its hard

[Master Nero Attoru]

I want to throw this out thare. What about the battales throgh history when armies and soldies were out numberd ten to one and still won i think it varry plassable to he out number and win is it easy no far from it but you need to use the terain and to circal wright to keep both of then in front of you if you do this wright you can back the in to a car or a corner but its hard

You bring up a good point, but let me just set the record straight:  duels have COMPLETELY different strategic and tactical aspects from larger scale battles.  The same plans and strategies that you would use in a war would make no sense to use as a singular person - it just doesn't scale up like that.  Some ideas can be adapted for sure - that's where you're right - but you can't assume that just because an army wins despite ten to one odds that a person can do the same.  We're discussing the plausibility of fighting two people alone - does anyone here think a person can legitimately fight ten people at once?  Anyone?

[RoryLyndze]

True but thare are records of just a few people taking one meny. My favoret was viking that held of the englis one a bridge ya i know they were funnaled but still it took an arow to take him down

[Kham-Ryn Kurios]

True but thare are records of just a few people taking one meny. My favoret was viking that held of the englis one a bridge ya i know they were funnaled but still it took an arow to take him down

That sounds really awesome!?

Do you have a link or something to it? I would really like to know more?

[RoryLyndze]

My phones not that high teck lol i cant even get your pic one this thing it was on the history chanel a few years back and it was tword the end of the viking im bad with names and dattes but i thing it was one of thare last battales

[Kham-Ryn Kurios]

It's okay If it was a  major Viking battle , I'm sure my buddy Volstagg knows about it.


Speaking of Vikings! What about a Viking Jedi, Just a near giant with a Great saber and he is just the happiest most fun loving guy in the world.

Anybody?

[Master Lucien Kane]

You bring up a good point, but let me just set the record straight:  duels have COMPLETELY different strategic and tactical aspects from larger scale battles.  The same plans and strategies that you would use in a war would make no sense to use as a singular person - it just doesn't scale up like that.  Some ideas can be adapted for sure - that's where you're right - but you can't assume that just because an army wins despite ten to one odds that a person can do the same.  We're discussing the plausibility of fighting two people alone - does anyone here think a person can legitimately fight ten people at once?  Anyone?

Fighting ten people at once is actually easier than fighting two people at once... Anywhere from two to five people against one can be extremely difficult because all opponents have a good chance of being able to reach their target. With more than five, the attackers run into this problem, they can't all get to the same target, they get in each others way, and they almost become more of a hindrance than an advantage. This is obviously provided that the one opponent is skilled at fighting multiple opponents, and therein lies the problem, if you don't train to be able to take on more than one opponent you won't be able to do it. Those who constantly train to that standard are able to do so.

[RoryLyndze]

Wich is what i want to do but my frends suck they just dont fight with thare heads i try to help they say im worng and they losse agen its sad