Jedi Academy: Tython

[Illyiss]

It seems like a lot of semantics over Gray Jedi.  The Wookipedia seems to have a lot to say on the subject.  Pablo not withstanding.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi

I can certainly see an inclination to call somehone who's left the Jedi order or drifted to murkier waters (and thus WAS a Jedi)  a "Gray Jedi"

It even makes sense to meet somebody who's got force powers, seems Jedi-like, but not quite wearing team colors a Gray Jedi.  Maybe not correct, but it's a point of reference.

That article seems to cover that.

Also, calling somebody a "Force User" is lame. So Jedi gets tacked onto the end.

Semantics are important to how we view things and the pictures we paint with words.  Using the term "Jedi" denotes being part of/associated with the Jedi Order, other than fallen/dark, as that denoted a fall/turn fully from it.  Ashoka said she isn't a Jedi, not any more.  Not that she's a grey/gray Jedi.  Force user is too generic and broad.  Grey/Gray by itself is good, but without context doesn't denote Jedi/Sith like entity.  Lord is a bit self important, perhaps.  Knight might work, as all in universe examples of anyone using the term is a Jedi/Sith like force wielder, iirc.  It also, though, has some connotations of specifically warrior/protector... 

[Darth Logos]

Pablo Hidalgo. BIG wig at LucasArts and responsible for good chunk of pre-disney SW lore and backstory.

Ok. Forget Pedro. VOTE FOR PABLO! We need to nix Cersei Kennedy and put a good man on the Iron Throne of LucasFilm.

He is the man who should be on the top of your S**t list.  Pablo Hidalgo is the head of the Lucasfilm Story Group, he is the one who says what is canon and what is not.  He's actually worked for Lucasfilm   since right before the prequels came out and is the one (along with Leland Che who also still works there) who gave us the different levels of canon ( G, T, C, S Etc.) before the dark times.

Levels of canon? I'm confused. Do I hate him or love him?


Thanks, janx. That was informative.

Semantics are important to how we view things and the pictures we paint with words.  Using the term "Jedi" denotes being part of/associated with the Jedi Order, other than fallen/dark, as that denoted a fall/turn fully from it.  Ashoka said she isn't a Jedi, not any more.  Not that she's a grey/gray Jedi.  Force user is too generic and broad.  Grey/Gray by itself is good, but without context doesn't denote Jedi/Sith like entity.  Lord is a bit self important, perhaps.  Knight might work, as all in universe examples of anyone using the term is a Jedi/Sith like force wielder, iirc.  It also, though, has some connotations of specifically warrior/protector... 

I think the term "Grey Jedi" would have been coined by the common folk of the galaxy to describe Force users that didn't adhere to the Jedi ideals, mostly because Jedi were the most common example of individuals using the Force. Kind of like how certain regions refer to all soda pops as Coke, or face tissue as Kleenex.

[Illyiss]

I think the term "Grey Jedi" would have been coined by the common folk of the galaxy to describe Force users that didn't adhere to the Jedi ideals, mostly because Jedi were the most common example of individuals using the Force. Kind of like how certain regions refer to all soda pops as Coke, or face tissue as Kleenex.

I agree, it's a vernacular branding, I just feel like as such, it doesn't properly describe things, when we aren't just talking familiarly.  It allows for issues like, "well Ashoka isn't a Jedi anymore, so she's Grey Jedi, and Asaj isn't Sith any more, so she's Grey Jedi."  These two are quite different.

[Darth Tepes]

Ok. Forget Pedro. VOTE FOR PABLO! We need to nix Cersei Kennedy and put a good man on the Iron Throne of LucasFilm.
Levels of canon? I'm confused. Do I hate him or love him?

When Lucas was in charge he was the man who made sure the fans and George were happy:  he helped create the canon levels:

G-canon is George Lucas canon: Considered absolute canon, it includes Episodes I–VI (the most recently released versions) and the upcoming Episodes VII–IX feature films, the animated film, and any statements by George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public).
 (...)

T-canon is Television canon:refers to the canon level comprising only the two television shows: Star Wars: The Clone Wars and Star Wars Rebels.
 (...)

C-canon is Continuity canon: consisting of materials from the Expanded Universe including books, comics, and games bearing the label of Star Wars.
 (...)

S-canon is Secondary canon: covering the same medium as C-canon, it is immediately superseded by anything in higher levels of canon in any place where two elements contradict each other.
 (...)

N-canon is Non-canon: (...) anything else directly contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N-canon is the only level that is not considered official canon by Lucasfilm. Any published material that contradicts things established in G-canon and T-canon is considered N-canon.


Basically this came about because of things Lucas put in the Prequels that were contradicting things in the EU.  This was their way of appeasing fans.  But since KK took the helm he has jumped on the revision train.

 

I agree, it's a vernacular branding, I just feel like as such, it doesn't properly describe things, when we aren't just talking familiarly.  It allows for issues like, "well Ashoka isn't a Jedi anymore, so she's Grey Jedi, and Asaj isn't Sith any more, so she's Grey Jedi."  These two are quite different.

I deem them Grey not just because they left their respective orders, but their ideals.  Both are willing to enter situations their respective training would disallow.  Ahsoka will rush in to save a village even if it isn't "her fight" unlike a Jedi (Similar to the Clone Wars episode that was homage to The Seven Samurai) and Ventress will save someone...just with a sneer.  She even sacrificed herself to save the Jedi she was in Love with. 

[Darth Logos]

When Lucas was in charge he was the man who made sure the fans and George were happy:  he helped create the canon levels:

G-canon is George Lucas canon: Considered absolute canon, it includes Episodes I–VI (the most recently released versions) and the upcoming Episodes VII–IX feature films, the animated film, and any statements by George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public).
 (...)

T-canon is Television canon:refers to the canon level comprising only the two television shows: Star Wars: The Clone Wars and Star Wars Rebels.
 (...)

C-canon is Continuity canon: consisting of materials from the Expanded Universe including books, comics, and games bearing the label of Star Wars.
 (...)

S-canon is Secondary canon: covering the same medium as C-canon, it is immediately superseded by anything in higher levels of canon in any place where two elements contradict each other.
 (...)

N-canon is Non-canon: (...) anything else directly contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N-canon is the only level that is not considered official canon by Lucasfilm. Any published material that contradicts things established in G-canon and T-canon is considered N-canon.


Basically this came about because of things Lucas put in the Prequels that were contradicting things in the EU.  This was their way of appeasing fans.  But since KK took the helm he has jumped on the revision train.

1) What is the (...) mean?

2) KILL HIM!!  TR8R! Pedro would never have allowed this to happen.

[Anakin Generation]

Yoda is a Green Jedi of the Elf Species. And Asoka is fully on the Love side of the Force. Don't get too caught up in labels and definitions. Let the Force flow through you, let it become your only Self, your Only Love forever, your only identity, then you will realize that you are the Force forever, and that the True Goal of the Jedi and anyone who uses the Force is to make all beings members of it's Energy. Do Nothing But Love Everyone Fully Forever.

[SpartanGrey117]

I'm fairly sure that this has been asked and answered many many times, but as for as lightsabers, the 'blade' itself has no weight correct? That would make training an interesting venture...

[Darth Logos]

I'm fairly sure that this has been asked and answered many many times, but as for as lightsabers, the 'blade' itself has no weight correct? That would make training an interesting venture...

As my colleague Darth Tepes explained to me, the blade is made of plasma contained within an energy field. Plasma by its definition is "super-heated air". Air has mass, despite being minuscule. A Jedi/Sith has the ability to perceive this mass through the Force, allowing them to deftly wield a lightsaber.

[Saso Is-kor]

I'm fairly sure that this has been asked and answered many many times, but as for as lightsabers, the 'blade' itself has no weight correct? That would make training an interesting venture...

It's been a long time since I've seen the Rebels episode but unless my memory fails me Sabine did mention that the Darksaber was "heavier than she thought it would be" or something along those lines. That would seem to indicate that it did have somewhat substantial weight, plus it's Canon and I think the only time it's mentioned that I know of.

Edit: I love Youtube

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1hZsB6CyXY" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1hZsB6CyXY</a>

[PsychoSith]

As my colleague Darth Tepes explained to me, the blade is made of plasma contained within an energy field. Plasma by its definition is "super-heated air". Air has mass, despite being minuscule. A Jedi/Sith has the ability to perceive this mass through the Force, allowing them to deftly wield a lightsaber.

Is there a source for the blade being plasma specifically? I was always under the impression that it was a "force energy" IE space magic blade. If it was normal plasma one could feasibly create a lightsaber purely from blaster components with no crystal or force required. This might be a new canon/old canon thing I'm just not sure off-hand.

[Darth Logos]

It's been a long time since I've seen the Rebels episode but unless my memory fails me Sabine did mention that the Darksaber was "heavier than she thought it would be" or something along those lines. That would seem to indicate that it did have somewhat substantial weight, plus it's Canon and I think the only time it's mentioned that I know of.

Edit: I love Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1hZsB6CyXY#

BOOOOOO

This is explanation total garbage. (Not your fault)

Is there a source for the blade being plasma specifically? I was always under the impression that it was a "force energy" IE space magic blade. If it was normal plasma one could feasibly create a lightsaber purely from blaster components with no crystal or force required. This might be a new canon/old canon thing I'm just not sure off-hand.

Plasma blade citation: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Lightsaber/Legends


Back before TCW began its campaign to completely ruin crystal lore, lightsabers were nothing more than hardware. ANYONE could use them, just not anyone could use them well.

The Force influence needed to create a saber came from the ability to perform micro-welds inside a ridiculously small and cramped space, from the inside of an enclosed body. Think of it like performing surgery without cutting open the skin.

Apparently both canons are filled with shark-jumping within saber/crystal lore in vain attempts to be edgy.

[PsychoSith]

BOOOOOO

This is explanation total garbage. (Not your fault)
Plasma blade citation: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Lightsaber/Legends


Back before TCW began its campaign to completely ruin crystal lore, lightsabers were nothing more than hardware. ANYONE could use them, just not anyone could use them well.

The Force influence needed to create a saber came from the ability to perform micro-welds inside a ridiculously small and cramped space, from the inside of an enclosed body. Think of it like performing surgery without cutting open the skin.

Apparently both canons are filled with shark-jumping within saber/crystal lore in vain attempts to be edgy.

Hmm. Fair enough. I enjoy the more fantasy based explanations but yeah, both seem to have issues.

[Saso Is-kor]

I think it's always been a kind of odd relationship between the mystical Force and physical hardware that makes a saber tick, but as mentioned a non-Force user would simply not have the same connection as a Jedi would. Since the Samurai were a partial inspiration for Lucas's Jedi I think the analogy works. To anybody else, a Katana is just a sword. Sharp, well made, but just a sword. To a Samurai his Katana is everything, it's  a symbol of commitment and honor and the weapon is truly his life (sound familiar?)

They kind of touched on this in Clone Wars with the whole Kyber crystal choosing its Jedi and such. Even though it may in fact be a metal tube that can emit plasma it's something much deeper.

[Darth Logos]

I think it's always been a kind of odd relationship between the mystical Force and physical hardware that makes a saber tick, but as mentioned a non-Force user would simply not have the same connection as a Jedi would. Since the Samurai were a partial inspiration for Lucas's Jedi I think the analogy works. To anybody else, a Katana is just a sword. Sharp, well made, but just a sword. To a Samurai his Katana is everything, it's  a symbol of commitment and honor and the weapon is truly his life (sound familiar?)

No arguments. Except, that unlike the samurai having a katana forged by a smith, the Jedi each forge their own saber. One aspect of that wretched TCW arc, when the kids make their sabers, Gungi is asked to envision the "perfect" saber in his hands. Size, materials, configuration, blade length/breadth; all these make a saber personal. Creating something gives a special bond between creator and creation.

They kind of touched on this in Clone Wars with the whole Kyber crystal choosing its Jedi and such. Even though it may in fact be a metal tube that can emit plasma it's something much deeper.

I just think that it would have been a better canon for the FORCE to simply guide the Jedi to the crystal that will best meet their needs. Still mystical, but far less dependent on the rocks.

[Darth Tepes]

To be specific the Lightsaber blade is a Plasma "loop", Interestingly enough (in old canon) The Sith were responsible for making Lightsabers better.   In the Old Canon more than a few Jedi cobbled their Lightsabers out of "scrap".  Notably Master Coran Horn.  As my Cohort Logos said the reason no one else could build a saber was because of internal workings having to be done using the Force (an explanation I never fully bought).  But it wasn't just welds, it was also shifting the Crystal (or crystals if it was a dual phase saber) to the right position.